O/T COVID rising…

[CAMiller]

I think most people pick a side and find information that makes them feel comfortable, it’s impossible for anyone to know if the vaccine is better than catching the virus and obtaining antibodies.

It 10 years we will probably know the answer

I see what you are saying about the divisions in opinion and I don't know what the UK numbers are but there are at least 750K dead here in the US (and probably many more suffering the after effects) who I'm sure would say they'd prefer to have never caught the virus.

[KerrAvon]

I think most people pick a side and find information that makes them feel comfortable, it’s impossible for anyone to know if the vaccine is better than catching the virus and obtaining antibodies.

It 10 years we will probably know the answer

The problem with acquiring immunity by catching the virus is that it kills quite a few people and would kill a lot more if the demand for intensive care is allowed to exceed the capacity of the NHS to provide it.

[KerrAvon]

You could interpret the fact that if you have antibodies you will have a better chance of not being seriously ill. This could then help with decision making of how you're going to live your life (based on probabilities).

So what level of antibodies is required to have a better chance of becoming I'll. You don't know, Eric's pals don't know and I would assume that the researchers don't know, which is why they are conducting the research.

That gets us back to my original point. Someone who decides to go partying 'because they've got antibodies' might be labouring under a dangerous misapprehension.

[John2]

it’s impossible for anyone to know if the vaccine is better than catching the virus and obtaining antibodies.

What on earth do you mean by this?

[South Coast Miller]

I see what you are saying about the divisions in opinion and I don't know what the UK numbers are but there are at least 750K dead here in the US (and probably many more suffering the after effects) who I'm sure would say they'd prefer to have never caught the virus.

Figures for UK:
138,000 dead. 8th highest in world, leaders in Europe
38,500 new cases yesterday. 2nd in world behind US (116,000)
2,000 deaths per million population, 2nd in Western Europe, just behind Italy, 21st in world.

I think we led in vaccination rates at one stage or at least were doing well but have now fallen behind several European countries who started vaccinating the younger population before we did. Us oldies are now waiting for our 3rd (booster) jabs.

[KerrAvon]

What on earth do you mean by this?

It's the latest fad that the anti-vax/paranoid personality disorder crew have seized upon. Their gene-editing claptrap has been debunked as has some of the wilder 5G/ nano- technology drivel so naturally acquired immunity is the new thing..

It's all based on some early Israeli data that suggests that infection acquired immunity is more broadly based than vaccine acquired immunity. That's almost certainly true given that vaccines 'show' only the spike protein to the immune system whereas people who are infected with the virus itself will be exposed to a range of viral components The nutters have seized upon this whilst ignoring the herd of elephants in the room which is that to acquire immunity through infection, you have to get infected, which is err, what we are trying to avoid.

I'm not suggesting that gm is an antivaxxer. Reading his posts, I think he is a member of the 'it's just flu' brigade who appear to have shaped the early UK government response.

[KerrAvon]

Figures for UK:
138,000 dead. 8th highest in world, leaders in Europe
38,500 new cases yesterday. 2nd in world behind US (116,000)
2,000 deaths per million population, 2nd in Western Europe, just behind Italy, 21st in world.

I think we led in vaccination rates at one stage or at least were doing well but have now fallen behind several European countries who started vaccinating the younger population before we did. Us oldies are now waiting for our 3rd (booster) jabs.

But we have been unlocked for the best part of three months and, as you say until recently had a policy of not vaccinating the young where the data suggests that the risk from the vaccines only marginally outweigh the medical benefits.

The virus isn't going away and the point has to come where we decide to live with it. The government is sticking with the individual freedom/personal responsibility line that is typical Tory. I think they've called it about right for the moment as do, I think, many people given how mask wearing appears to be going out of fashion.

Where the government is wrong at the moment is the lack of grown up conversation - the lack of 'this is the death rate that we have to pay for our freedom' conversation.

[KerrAvon]

That should read the benefit of vaccinating children only marginally outweighs the risk. I'm on my phone so will probably lose the whole post if I try to edit.

[Shark27]

So what level of antibodies is required to have a better chance of becoming I'll. You don't know, Eric's pals don't know and I would assume that the researchers don't know, which is why they are conducting the research.

That gets us back to my original point. Someone who decides to go partying 'because they've got antibodies' might be labouring under a dangerous misapprehension.

I presume you are saying you would rather not know so you can go out partying (or socialising) in the ignorance of not knowing you don't have antibodies?

I know I have had antibodies from the vaccine and I know I have them from the virus as I have done the 2 blood tests. I don't know why I said I would do the test as it hasn't really told me anything that I didn't expect.

Some people would rather know if they aren't showing antibodies as they will not go out. If they are showing a level of antibodies (my test didnt) then they may choose to go out.

[KerrAvon]

You are well wide of the mark there. I'm double jabbed, still wear a mask at the supermarket and prefer to sit outside when I make an occasional trip to the pub (although the weather may soon change that). Haven't partied for 18 months.

I don't know by antibody status and my point (again) is that it wouldn't make much difference to me if I did. I have (30+ yrs out of date) knowledge of microbiology and biochemistry, but would still not be able to determine what level of antibodies might afford me protection.

My point (again) is that modifying one's behaviour because of antibody status is to take a step in the dark.