O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

Not sure if you mean U.K. people or worldwide

I mean both the UK and worldwide. I suspect you’ll find what, for want of a better expression, is an underclass of people in the UK and across Europe who have not been vaccinated and I think it’s clear that there will be great swathes of Asia and Africa that remain unvaccinated.
Even those, and I’m not necessarily including you, who seem to think ‘**** the poor’ should recognise that their wealth ultimately fails to offer full protection against an airborne virus, so from both a selfish and a more all embracing point of view I believe that this is where the emphasis must lie.
As for the anti vaxxers...I’m not sure what you do, but I’d be inclined, in the short term at least, to make their full participation in society as difficult as possible. Unfortunately I gather the Government is likely to be abandoning social distancing measures altogether in the near future which, imo, is a very unwise thing to suggest. Quell surprise.

[Geoff Parkstone]

[Andy_Faber]

an underclass of people in the UK and across Europe who have not been vaccinated.

I don’t get that assertion rA. Anyone legally in-country will have the credentials to register for vaccination, whatever ‘class’ they are. Define ‘underclass’ in U.K. terms

[Trickytreesreds]

I don’t get that assertion rA. Anyone legally in-country will have the credentials to register for vaccination, whatever ‘class’ they are. Define ‘underclass’ in U.K. terms

Less than 34?

[ramAnag]

I don’t get that assertion rA. Anyone legally in-country will have the credentials to register for vaccination, whatever ‘class’ they are. Define ‘underclass’ in U.K. terms

The ‘underclass’, in any western society, are I suppose the lowest of the low in society or the community. The poorest including the long term unemployed and the homeless.
I’m not entering into debate about why there are such people or who is to blame, that’s for elsewhere, but I’m surprised I had to explain.
I guess it’s because I spent many years working with the poorest children in Derby that I maybe have a greater awareness, and you are of course simultaneously right and surprisingly naive.

Yes, ‘anyone legally in-country will have the credentials to register for vaccination’...technically...but sadly such ‘entitlement’ doesn’t always extend to the homeless (address less), the intellectually challenged, the irresponsible, those with additional mental health issues, the lazy, the incapable or those who are just completely isolated. They represent the ‘underclass’ and, unfortunately - where the pandemic is concerned - the reality is...they breathe the same air as you and me.

[Andy_Faber]

The ‘underclass’, in any western society, are I suppose the lowest of the low in society or the community. The poorest including the long term unemployed and the homeless.
I’m not entering into debate about why there are such people or who is to blame, that’s for elsewhere, but I’m surprised I had to explain.
I guess it’s because I spent many years working with the poorest children in Derby that I maybe have a greater awareness, and you are of course simultaneously right and surprisingly naive.

Yes, ‘anyone legally in-country will have the credentials to register for vaccination’...technically...but sadly such ‘entitlement’ doesn’t always extend to the homeless (address less), the intellectually challenged, the irresponsible, those with additional mental health issues, the lazy, the incapable or those who are just completely isolated. They represent the ‘underclass’ and, unfortunately - where the pandemic is concerned - the reality is...they breathe the same air as you and me.

I've no doubt they do. But that's not an 'underclass', that's just a list of folk who can't or won't get the vaccine. A bit like 'hard to reach', which is widely used but means anything but

[ramAnag]

I've no doubt they do. But that's not an 'underclass', that's just a list of folk who can't or won't get the vaccine. A bit like 'hard to reach', which is widely used but means anything but

No, it’s an ‘underclass’...those who’ve fallen through the ‘net’ because of their own or their parent’s inadequacies/misfortune. Not all will be unvaccinated of course, but a significant proportion probably will and that needs addressing imo.

[Andy_Faber]

No, it’s an ‘underclass’...those who’ve fallen through the ‘net’ because of their own or their parent’s inadequacies/misfortune. Not all will be unvaccinated of course, but a significant proportion probably will and that needs addressing imo.

No doubting your 'on the ground' exposure to disadvantaged folk, but your definition is pretty nebulous. UK statistics on this indicate that the lack of take up increases with (reduction in) age, there's no suggestion that I can see that there's a 'class' element to that

[ramAnag]

No doubting your 'on the ground' exposure to disadvantaged folk, but your definition is pretty nebulous. UK statistics on this indicate that the lack of take up increases with (reduction in) age, there's no suggestion that I can see that there's a 'class' element to that

I haven’t actually described a ‘class element’ to ‘take up’ beyond that presented by and for the ‘underclass’ which you seem to be denying the existence of.
I’ve defined the ‘underclass’ as I have. I disagree that it’s ‘nebulous’ but here’s the Cambridge Dictionary definition...

‘Underclass...a group of people with a lower social and economic position than any of the other classes of society’.

There’s been an ‘underclass’ for ever. Think Oliver Twist and the Work House from the nine****th century.
It’s changed of course, but not entirely. In fact, as a local example, in Derby until relatively recently there was a ‘character’ (aka tw@t) nicknamed ‘Fagin’ who ran much the same enterprise as his namesake and who local teachers and social workers, not to mention shop assistants, had to be very alert to.

Slightly ironically and at the risk of ‘cross threading’, it is also the case that many of the victims of the ever emotive ‘grooming gangs’ came from the very same ‘underclass’ homes where, in many cases, the values and examples that the likes of you and I might take for granted are simply not present. (Please note the use of the word ‘many’ - twice - before you, or anyone else, explode with rage.)

[Andy_Faber]

I haven’t actually described a ‘class element’ to ‘take up’ beyond that presented by and for the ‘underclass’ which you seem to be denying the existence of.
I’ve defined the ‘underclass’ as I have. I disagree that it’s ‘nebulous’ but here’s the Cambridge Dictionary definition...

‘Underclass...a group of people with a lower social and economic position than any of the other classes of society’.

There’s been an ‘underclass’ for ever. Think Oliver Twist and the Work House from the nine****th century.
It’s changed of course, but not entirely. In fact, as a local example, in Derby until relatively recently there was a ‘character’ (aka tw@t) nicknamed ‘Fagin’ who ran much the same enterprise as his namesake and who local teachers and social workers, not to mention shop assistants, had to be very alert to.

Slightly ironically and at the risk of ‘cross threading’, it is also the case that many of the victims of the ever emotive ‘grooming gangs’ came from the very same ‘underclass’ homes where, in many cases, the values and examples that the likes of you and I might take for granted are simply not present. (Please note the use of the word ‘many’ - twice - before you, or anyone else, explode with rage.)

I understand and for the most part agree but does being 'lazy' make someone part of the 'underclass' (and therefore deserving of the extra efforts you suggest)? I personally think not. I'll use a phrase I've used here before 'help those who can't help themselves, not those who won't help themselves'