O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

Agreed (shock) but then there will always be those who feel aggrieved by whatever government of whatever political leaning does.

Yes and I'm a bit surprised that Ardern is pushing this, as she has bent over backwards since election to accommodate/include/in the view of some, favour minorities, yet this by the nature of their reluctance to vax, here she is acting against that leaning/intention. Its tricky (no pun intended) being a PM

[swaledale]

Yes and I'm a bit surprised that Ardern is pushing this, as she has bent over backwards since election to accommodate/include/in the view of some, favour minorities, yet this by the nature of their reluctance to vax, here she is acting against that leaning/intention. Its tricky (no pun intended) being a PM

Being any sort of leader is tricky, the good ones do what they believe to be in the interests of the people they are leading whilst the bad ones tend either to want to be popular or follow their own agenda. Of course politicians have the issue of being relected which is why except in say times of war or similar deep crisis, they tend to balance doing the right thing with being popular.

[ramAnag]

I think perhaps the best analogy is with the no smoking in public rule change of however many years ago.

People were full of righteous indignation at first when they could no longer smoke in bars and restaurants and had to go outside to smoking shelters. Many moaned about being treated as second class citizens. Then it became accepted that non smokers shouldn’t have to put up with the health risk presented by second hand smoke and passive smoking so that now it’s difficult to imagine going home from a pub smelling of smoke or eating a meal next to someone else puffing away.

People no longer tolerate having to put up with the unhealthy smoking habits of others and so, imo, should be the case with vaccination. It is in everyone’s interest that all should be vaccinated and only a tiny minority will be able to offer a valid excuse.

[Trickytreesreds]

I think perhaps the best analogy is with the no smoking in public rule change of however many years ago.

People were full of righteous indignation at first when they could no longer smoke in bars and restaurants and had to go outside to smoking shelters. Many moaned about being treated as second class citizens. Then it became accepted that non smokers shouldn’t have to put up with the health risk presented by second hand smoke and passive smoking so that now it’s difficult to imagine going home from a pub smelling of smoke or eating a meal next to someone else puffing away.

People no longer tolerate having to put up with the unhealthy smoking habits of others and so, imo, should be the case with vaccination. It is in everyone’s interest that all should be vaccinated and only a tiny minority will be able to offer a valid excuse.

Don't think that analogy is a good comparison RA.
Being a smoker doesn't cause you to lose your job etc.

I'm like this. Everyone, vaccinated or not, can carry COVID.
You can still get it and suffer with it. You chances of dying are dramatically reduced,
So will alienating every non vaxer solve anything?
I doubt it very much, unless you want to stop at new borns as well.
Non of this accounts for mutations either.

[ramAnag]

Don't think that analogy is a good comparison RA.
Being a smoker doesn't cause you to lose your job etc.

Ultimately it did, Tricky. It may be hard to believe now, but even in the late seventies/early eighties a small group of us would just sit in the staff room smoking with complete disregard for the majority around us and even much later, my wife used to regularly come home smelling of smoke because she had to share an office with a pipe smoker...but then things changed.

Ultimately if you couldn’t function in the office/staff room/factory...wherever without smoking then you either took yourself off outside or you no longer worked there.

Likewise with public transport/cinemas/theatres/restaurants/football grounds/hotel rooms etc.
People used to smoke on planes and I can certainly remember a time when there were smoking compartments on trains and you could smoke on the top deck of buses, in fact so thick was the ‘fog’ up there it seemed almost compulsory.

Now you’re not allowed to smoke in any of the above. It has long been considered anti-social and a risk to public health. Those that still choose to smoke, and put an extra burden on the NHS, have been effectively ostracised and for me there are clear parallels with those who (with the exception of a tiny minority) choose to remain unvaccinated for no good reason...because that too is anti social and a risk to public health.

[Geoff Parkstone]

RA, the flaw in your analogy is that people choose to smoke, whereas noone I've ever known chose to have COVID

[ramAnag]

RA, the flaw in your analogy is that people choose to smoke, whereas noone I've ever known chose to have COVID

The analogy is with those who choose to smoke and those who choose not to be vaccinated, GP.
We will happily tell those who want to smoke that they can’t have access to certain locations/activities. All that is being suggested is that the same prohibition extends to those who choose not to be vaccinated.
In both cases the common denominator is the interest of public health and safety.

[MadAmster]

You can, indeed, still get infected and then infect others after being vaccinated but the chances of getting it after vaccination are lower than if you're not vaccinated.

[Andy_Faber]

The analogy is with those who choose to smoke and those who choose not to be vaccinated, GP.
We will happily tell those who want to smoke that they can’t have access to certain locations/activities. All that is being suggested is that the same prohibition extends to those who choose not to be vaccinated.
In both cases the common denominator is the interest of public health and safety.

Agreeing with that, esp as a clinically diagnosed sensitivity to nicotine residue (what sticks on surfaces after after the smoke lands) meant I had 46 years of clogged eyes and spoiled nights out until the smoking ban. Remember there was an equivalent of anti vaxers back then, people who were adamant that without the smell of smoke, pubs would stink of BO and wee. Well that proved not to be the case, but in any case neither give innocent folk lung cancer

[Geoff Parkstone]

You can't have been down my local then Andy!! Nor do I any longer, as it stinks (probably rA's underclasses!), but even that is preferable to smoke