O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[upthemaggies]

I think there's a fair amount of hyperbole in that. For example, I don't know of any countries where governments have said people aren't allowed to enter food shops without proof of vaccine, in fact they always seem to be quite keep to avoid that sort of problem.

In the unlikely case that these people had neither an internet connection nor a telephone to order a delivery, and had no friends or family to pick food up for them, and preferred to do nothing while their health deteriorated or had literally no other way of getting hold of food, and all of this was happening happening on a significant scale, then we could reasonably say that we are on the cusp of literally starving people to death.

The trans issue you and I agree about, and I don't think anybody wants a Chjnese style social credit system.

I still haven't seen anything that has changed my mind that we are so far away from the Holocaust that any comparisons are unwise.

On a broader note, I would disagree with Swale (while appreciative of his hard work) that this thread has become like the Brexit threads. So far there have been some interesting exchanges of views and very little antagonism.

I think it's a myth that people never changed their views. Ok, people with very entrenched views are unlikely to change, but I personally have changed some of my opinions due at least in part to conversations on here with Bohinen. We need to respect each other, obviously, and not everyone will agree about everything, but when we stop talking and listening to each other is when we end up with divided societies.

I re-evaluated all of my political beliefs last year, triggered by the taking the knee/social "justice" phenomena setting the alarm bells ringing. I don't think that whole scene would have been anything like as widespread and in such sharp focus without the Covid crisis to enable it, I think the two are very much entwined and the left are being used as useful idiots to help usher in a whole new level of controls that could easily swing to the far right at any time, there comes a point where there's little difference anyway.

I don't think anybody is suggesting we are about to see a repeat of the holocaust in the next few years, but what we are seeing now is how totalitarianism begins. We have gone beyond "No Irish, no blacks, no dogs", which was never a government directive. This is as bad a situation as we've seen in western Europe for basic human rights since World War II.

If predictions of food shortages/supplies become reality, which group will people be calling for to be denied/rationed first?

[BigFatPie]

I re-evaluated all of my political beliefs last year, triggered by the taking the knee/social "justice" phenomena setting the alarm bells ringing. I don't think that whole scene would have been anything like as widespread and in such sharp focus without the Covid crisis to enable it, I think the two are very much entwined and the left are being used as useful idiots to help usher in a whole new level of controls that could easily swing to the far right at any time, there comes a point where there's little difference anyway.

I don't think anybody is suggesting we are about to see a repeat of the holocaust in the next few years, but what we are seeing now is how totalitarianism begins. We have gone beyond "No Irish, no blacks, no dogs", which was never a government directive. This is as bad a situation as we've seen in western Europe for basic human rights since World War II.

If predictions of food shortages/supplies become reality, which group will people be calling for to be denied/rationed first?

The government aren’t using covid as a stealth tactic to take away our rights. They’re already doing that in plain sight with the Nationality and Borders Bill;

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/what-...hange-12488364

and the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill;

https://centralbylines.co.uk/amendme...ts-to-protest/.

That’s in addition of course to the removal of our freedom of movement at the start of the year. Curiously, I haven’t seen a single anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, or anti-lockdown merchant express concern about any of these proposed measures. In fact if anything many seem all for them.

Why would that be?

[upthemaggies]

The government aren’t using covid as a stealth tactic to take away our rights. They’re already doing that in plain sight with the Nationality and Borders Bill;

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/what-...hange-12488364

and the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill;

https://centralbylines.co.uk/amendme...ts-to-protest/.

That’s in addition of course to the removal of our freedom of movement at the start of the year. Curiously, I haven’t seen a single anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, or anti-lockdown merchant express concern about any of these proposed measures. In fact if anything many seem all for them.

Why would that be?

Political bias.
We all support measures that won't effect us today in the belief they won't lead to measures that will effect us tomorrow.

Obviously, you can't have a complete free for all and the opposite extreme is the other road to hell. Somehow we have to keep our balance but there's an awful lot of people now rocking the boat and then the other side have to try and rock it back the other way to stay afloat.

[optipez]

Political bias.
We all support measures that won't effect us today in the belief they won't lead to measures that will effect us tomorrow.

Obviously, you can't have a complete free for all and the opposite extreme is the other road to hell. Somehow we have to keep our balance but there's an awful lot of people now rocking the boat and then the other side have to try and rock it back the other way to stay afloat.

UTM, you've been entirely reasonable and correct all the way through but you're wasting your time. People are frightened silly, silly being the word to the point of actively wanting to separate people in a form of health apartheid. It's monstrous but they don't care. There's no science for it, not a graph on the planet showing a lessening of transmission for mask wearing , no evidence that Covid passports slow transmission and definitely no sign of them saving lives.
After two years of restrictions, new laws, and a quite profound change in our behaviour and attitudes to each other the majority are still queuing up for one last final big push. This time lads, it's going to work. It isn't, Covid is endemic and we're nearly all going to get it over the next few years.
"Three weeks to flatten the sombrero", remember that, that was the first whopper and they'll keep telling them as long as you keep believing them.

[BanjoPie]

Many on here are divided regards covid vaccination however, regardless of one’s individual opinion, I wish everyone on this forum a very Merry Christmas and a happy new year. I am just about to leave the UK to spend the holiday period in Asia.

Stay safe everybody. COYP’s

[applepie2]

The government aren’t using covid as a stealth tactic to take away our rights. They’re already doing that in plain sight with the Nationality and Borders Bill;

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/what-...hange-12488364

and the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill;

https://centralbylines.co.uk/amendme...ts-to-protest/.

That’s in addition of course to the removal of our freedom of movement at the start of the year. Curiously, I haven’t seen a single anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, or anti-lockdown merchant express concern about any of these proposed measures. In fact if anything many seem all for them.

Why would that be?

Exactly.

[upthemaggies]

UTM, you've been entirely reasonable and correct all the way through but you're wasting your time. .

Well, as Driller pointed out, I'm probably guilty of hyperbole to some extent but it's difficult to remain calm and rational at all times in the face of such hysteria.
I was pro lockdown and masks until around June 2020, there were very few voices opposed initially, I think the poster with the lone wolf avatar was the only one here making the case against over multiple posts. People are realising now that this vaccine is likely going to become a quarterly subscription, or at lleast 2-3 a year - which would be unprecedented, and then this is for a jab that's not gone through the correct procedure on safety and surrounded by secrecy, there's going to be a lot who won't be happy about that and will now be more willing to listen to people previously dismissed as conspiracy theorists and lumped in with crackpots talking about lizard people and hologram planes at 911.

Most of my family have been jabbed so I'm praying the only problem with it is that it's basically not worth the bother in the long run. It obviously does something, you can't kick start the body into making spike proteins and not have something going on, it is stimulating an immune response but there has to be a cost to that over time. If a cell or DNA can repair itself 5 times in your lifetime then it's not a big deal if it's being required to do so once every 16 years or so, if it's having to do that every four months and the effect is widespread in the body in key areas, then we've got a very serious problem.

[BanjoPie]

Well, as Driller pointed out, I'm probably guilty of hyperbole to some extent but it's difficult to remain calm and rational at all times in the face of such hysteria.
I was pro lockdown and masks until around June 2020, there were very few voices opposed initially, I think the poster with the lone wolf avatar was the only one here making the case against over multiple posts. People are realising now that this vaccine is likely going to become a quarterly subscription, or at lleast 2-3 a year - which would be unprecedented, and then this is for a jab that's not gone through the correct procedure on safety and surrounded by secrecy, there's going to be a lot who won't be happy about that and will now be more willing to listen to people previously dismissed as conspiracy theorists and lumped in with crackpots talking about lizard people and hologram planes at 911.

Most of my family have been jabbed so I'm praying the only problem with it is that it's basically not worth the bother in the long run. It obviously does something, you can't kick start the body into making spike proteins and not have something going on, it is stimulating an immune response but there has to be a cost to that over time. If a cell or DNA can repair itself 5 times in your lifetime then it's not a big deal if it's being required to do so once every 16 years or so, if it's having to do that every four months and the effect is widespread in the body in key areas, then we've got a very serious problem.

it seems you are beyond help UTM - I sincerely hope you don't succumb to the virus.

[upthemaggies]

it seems you are beyond help UTM - I sincerely hope you don't succumb to the virus.

I survived it. Probably will have trouble surviving the next one though at the cost of battling this one. By next one I mean a whole new virus, not a variant. Sars-2 variants are in the 3% variation I think. Can't remember the exact figures but your immune system will recognise 60% or so similar.

As an aside, I've heard Omicron isn't where you'd expect it to be if you plotted the graph with the swarm of tens of thousands of variants over the past two years. You'd expect it to be towards the end with recent variants, but it's apparently somewhere in the middle, which doesn't make sense unless it's been frozen in time and then released. Early days though and it will require further analysis.

[cher1]

There's no science for it, not a graph on the planet showing a lessening of transmission for mask wearing

That is completely wrong. Here you go:

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302