OT perspective/ Ukraine/Russia

[ramAnag]

Back to perspective, the media seem intent on causing panic about a nuclear war. I've today alone had to console 2 family members who've become incredibly anxious about it.
Firstly, there's an actual war happening and we should be concentrating on helping the victims, not stirring up panic over what "might" happen to us, it's ridiculous.
Secondly, why make people worry about something that isn't happening, we're not in a war with Russia, let alone a nuclear one, and how long did the cold war last without bombs going off? We could have a heart attack any day, you don't create a big stir about it and get everyone anxious every day, because, it might happen.

You’re right Ramshank and the press specialises in whipping up ‘hysteria’ about all sorts of things from planes falling out of the sky as we began a new millennium, to Brexit, to immigration etc, etc...depending upon their ‘agenda’.

Unfortunately weaponry has developed enormously since the last time we experienced a situation anything like this and, equally unfortunately, the quality of our leadership seem to have correspondingly declined. Without aiming to make any political points, we have, I think, a madman - and possibly (again according to the press) one suffering from terminal illness - in charge of Russia, a semi geriatric (albeit a well meaning one) in charge of the U.S, and a proven liar, who has to have the difference between a party and a work event explained to him, in charge of the UK.

Having such firepower in the hands of such dangerous incompetents is, imo, the fear. Tbh I don’t know much about the other European/NATO leaders but, with all due respect to those experiencing such hardship in Eastern Ukraine, what happens if Putin turns his attention to the Baltic countries or Finland, with which Russia shares a huge border, and Norway?

[swaledale]

Are you suggesting I was making stuff up when I said my father was Ukrainian, why for sympathy or something? His name was Aleksander Pirozek, he didn't talk much about the war much other than tell me that he twice escaped from a Russian POW camp because he refused to fight for the Russians, he always used to say one day when your old enough I'll tell you all about it, funny because he was still saying that when I was 30 years old when he passed away. The only other thing he told me was he had a brother Anton who lived in Pennsylvania, thats all i knew from his side, mum's maiden name was Franziska Zofia Bienkowska who when was a young girl during the war was dragged out into the street along with her mum, dad, gran and others and lined up to be shot by the nazis when they came searching for a young Jewish boy who they did actually hide in a disused well, the nazis never did find the boy which in turn allowed me and my brother and sister to be born, I however was born in Derby 1970 on Grey St about halfway up on the right

Please don't Swale

I made absolutely no comment on you StensonRam it was others spurious claims I was referring to, I have no reason to doubt anything you have said and have never made a personal or critical comment about you.

[swaledale]

Now we have a video of Putin, urging May to fulfil Brexit, now why would he be so interested in the UK leaving the EU? Oh those Brexiteers and Tories and those fools who voted for them and it have been had well and truly.

Not only economic suicide but helping to destabilise europe and world peace!

And now we have that utter bonehead Tory Steve Baker saying we should invoke article 16 over Northern Ireland, I mean how stupid and self serving does a politician have to be to even mention breaking an international treaty whilst the Uk is working with the EU in response to the situation in Ukaraine?

[Trickytreesreds]

I think its far more significant, to highlight Merkels contribution to Russian boldness. Dependence, and complicit of lowering Western strength.
But Merkel being "mutty" of Europe, will be an inconvenient truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-NljdnASbA

[Trickytreesreds]

You’re right Ramshank and the press specialises in whipping up ‘hysteria’ about all sorts of things from planes falling out of the sky as we began a new millennium, to Brexit, to immigration etc, etc...depending upon their ‘agenda’.

Unfortunately weaponry has developed enormously since the last time we experienced a situation anything like this and, equally unfortunately, the quality of our leadership seem to have correspondingly declined. Without aiming to make any political points, we have, I think, a madman - and possibly (again according to the press) one suffering from terminal illness - in charge of Russia, a semi geriatric (albeit a well meaning one) in charge of the U.S, and a proven liar, who has to have the difference between a party and a work event explained to him, in charge of the UK.

Having such firepower in the hands of such dangerous incompetents is, imo, the fear. Tbh I don’t know much about the other European/NATO leaders but, with all due respect to those experiencing such hardship in Eastern Ukraine, what happens if Putin turns his attention to the Baltic countries or Finland, with which Russia shares a huge border, and Norway?

I can relate to most of that as sensible.
However, the questions then remain.
1. What is our response
2. Who is going to respond to any of them in what way?

2 can be removed democratically. 1 can not
The one you refer to as a semi geriatic but well meaning, scares me more than the proven liar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aAQCDHYuDU


So what do you do?

[Andy_Faber]

I made absolutely no comment on you StensonRam it was others spurious claims I was referring to, I have no reason to doubt anything you have said and have never made a personal or critical comment about you.

FAO all, and just to clear things up for you, my anecdote regarding our Russian friend is factual, I would never invent a story on such a serious matter. I can offer another, of another Russian ex work colleague of Mrs F’s, who has been brave enough to use the LinkedIn platform, which still works in Russia at the mo, to spread the word of truth at risk of job dismissal at least and imprisonment at most.

I’ll continue to share anecdotes regardless of Swale’s efforts. Swale just stop being so silly, and rA stop making excuses for him, please, it weakens your otherwise well made points

[Geoff Parkstone]

You’re right Ramshank and the press specialises in whipping up ‘hysteria’ about all sorts of things from planes falling out of the sky as we began a new millennium, to Brexit, to immigration etc, etc...depending upon their ‘agenda’.

Unfortunately weaponry has developed enormously since the last time we experienced a situation anything like this and, equally unfortunately, the quality of our leadership seem to have correspondingly declined. Without aiming to make any political points, we have, I think, a madman - and possibly (again according to the press) one suffering from terminal illness - in charge of Russia, a semi geriatric (albeit a well meaning one) in charge of the U.S, and a proven liar, who has to have the difference between a party and a work event explained to him, in charge of the UK.

Having such firepower in the hands of such dangerous incompetents is, imo, the fear. Tbh I don’t know much about the other European/NATO leaders but, with all due respect to those experiencing such hardship in Eastern Ukraine, what happens if Putin turns his attention to the Baltic countries or Finland, with which Russia shares a huge border, and Norway?

For someone not aiming to make political points, you still managed a few 😀. All I can add is that I'm thankful that Bush and Blair aren't in charge of their respective nations at present, as we'd most likely not be having this conversation but rather be blowing around as a handful of radioactive dust in the wind.

Otherwise your domino theory is possibly reflective of my biggest fear in this whole debacle. Where do they stop? If it really is all about weapons of mass destruction being placed near to the Russian border by a new NATO member in Ukraine, where does it stop?

Sweden and Finland are not in NATO so the northern borders are safe - but Poland and the 3 Baltic States are and must present a challenge. Bulgaria, Romania to the south are in NATO, so too Turkey.

But that's a big IF. It's really hard to figure out what Putin's reasoning is, as the NATO threat argument isn't really credible. There isn't enough oil to make it a resource war in the manner of Iraq, although Ukraine has Europe's biggest reserves of Uranium and various rare earth elements.

If he's just playing Billy Big *******s for internal popularity reasons - unlikely - or to avenge the loss of greater USSR and rebuild it, then maybe he won't make his next moves into Europe, but into Asia, the 'Stans, Azerbijan etc?

Who knows? What can we do about it? We can't engage conventional warfare there, and he knows that. So 1. do what we are doing now and try to use economics, or 2. press the big MAD button.

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp...obile&ie=UTF-8

[swaledale]

FAO all, and just to clear things up for you, my anecdote regarding our Russian friend is factual, I would never invent a story on such a serious matter. I can offer another, of another Russian ex work colleague of Mrs F’s, who has been brave enough to use the LinkedIn platform, which still works in Russia at the mo, to spread the word of truth at risk of job dismissal at least and imprisonment at most.

I’ll continue to share anecdotes regardless of Swale’s efforts. Swale just stop being so silly, and rA stop making excuses for him, please, it weakens your otherwise well made points

Can I just point out that fabrication, allusion to some connection with somewhere or somebody is a common and often used tactic by you, one only has to go back over your posts as is lying, denial outright contradiction of previous posts you make and attempting to cause confusion by inserting humour.

Furthermore if you and GP hadn't been so keen to "score" a petty personal point when I made a perfectly reasonable post, as always playing the man rather than addressing the subject, there wouldn't be yet another spat on here. Pretty strange behaviour for a so called Mod.

In short I take anything posted by you with a huge pinch of salt and you'd be advised to stop digging when your in a hole.

[MadAmster]

Apparently the Russian Embassy in South Africa tweeted that Russian forces were in Ukraine attacking Nazism there. The SA German Embassy replied No you're not, you're killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. We should know, we're kind of experts on Nazism.

1-0 Germany.

[ramAnag]

FAO all, and just to clear things up for you, my anecdote regarding our Russian friend is factual, I would never invent a story on such a serious matter. I can offer another, of another Russian ex work colleague of Mrs F’s, who has been brave enough to use the LinkedIn platform, which still works in Russia at the mo, to spread the word of truth at risk of job dismissal at least and imprisonment at most.

I’ll continue to share anecdotes regardless of Swale’s efforts. Swale just stop being so silly, and rA stop making excuses for him, please, it weakens your otherwise well made points

Please don’t tell me what to do, AF. There had been a misunderstanding as far as Stenson was concerned which I sought to avoid being taken further. I deliberately made no comment about your ‘anecdotes’ which, personally, I have no reason to doubt.

You, GP and Tricky deliberately provoke Swale time and time again imo. Your ongoing attacks on him are tedious and childish imo as are GP’s and Tricky’s on me.

It’s water off the proverbial duck’s back to me...but, if you want an example of ‘pathetic’, try GP deliberately falsifying a quote of your words to me or misrepresenting Swale...it’s just part of the reason why my responses to ‘Dastardly and Muttley’ will be very much more limited in the future.

P.S. I didn’t make any ‘political points’, GP. My perspective is that Putin is a madman, Biden is too old to handle a situation like this, and Johnson is an inveterate liar. Nothing political about any of that...it’s just my perspective/opinion...what is there to disagree with?