OT perspective/ Ukraine/Russia

[Geoff Parkstone]

I couldn’t agree more...to which you can add the interference and influence of Russian money within the British political ‘class’.

Yay, were getting there, in a few more pages time it will be shown that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is Johnson's fault...

[ramAnag]

Oh c’mon, GP...we, at least, have had some sort of sensible ‘ceasefire’ of late.
I know you can be a full time apologist for the current Tory leadership at times, but even you must realise that it can’t be healthy for Russians who are socio/political allies of mad Vlad to be benefactors of the current Party of UK Government.

I don’t think I, or anyone else, has mentioned Johnson of late, but unfortunately there are now problems which probably should have been foreseen, whether that was by those who have made the likes of Germany and France far too dependent on Russian oil and gas, or those in this country who have been far too willing to hand over power and influence to Russian oligarchs in return for financial favour.

[Geoff Parkstone]

But who started all the sucking up to newly appointed russian leader Putin in 2000 by ignoring war crimes in Chechnya for the sake of oil deals in the area. Your hero Blair is the answer (as it often is with negative aspects of 21st century politics). Sure, the current government has maintained a probably unhealthy closeness, but who started the trend....

[ramAnag]

But who started all the sucking up to newly appointed russian leader Putin in 2000 by ignoring war crimes in Chechnya for the sake of oil deals in the area. Your hero Blair is the answer (as it often is with negative aspects of 21st century politics). Sure, the current government has maintained a probably unhealthy closeness, but who started the trend....

Perfectly fair point...but he a) hasn’t been PM for 15 years and b) isn’t, and never has been, my ‘hero’...so ‘sure, the current government has maintained a probably unhealthy closeness’ is your only relevant point...and we agree.

[swaledale]

Yay, were getting there, in a few more pages time it will be shown that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is Johnson's fault...

Well if one was explaining matters to a simpleton maybe! but as with all these things the reasons are multi faceted!

Undoubtedly the Tories are up to their armpits in dodgy dealings with the Russians and London is the centre of dodgy financial dealings, are opaque company and property registration and laws being to blame.

We know Putin's spies have murdered at least two opponents on UK soil and used biological weapons to attempt another, which killed a UK citizen.

The EU became complacent over Russia, even when with his actions in Chechnya, Georgia, Eastern Ukraine, Syria and Crimea saw illegal occupation of land, use of chemical weapons and probable war crimes, no attempt was made to review how he was dealt with.

The US were more concerned with china and believed Russia was a EU problem and (not unreasonably) objected to covering the cost of protecting the EU when member states were not paying the full whack themselves.

Germany made a serious strategic mistake in its relationship with Russia, but also its history has made its attitude to defence problematic.

Farage and his cohorts were only to happy to cosy up to dubious Russians to suit his own agenda and he is still an apologist. Trump was just completely whacko, I think the strong man image of Putin appealed to him, unfortunately his threats re NATO emboldened Putin.

I would hope that (unfortunately for Ukrainians) what has happened has made the various world leaders and the EU sit up and consider what they do next.

But one can easily compare the way Johnson operates with Putin - surround oneself with yes persons, lie, cheat, put forward propaganda which bears no relation to the truth, appoint sympathisers to jobs in the countries institutions, funnel government money to cronies, political interference with the electoral commission, gerrymandering with boundaries and introduce voter ID, all to disadvantage political opponents.

Just because Johnson isn't shooting or poisoning opponents doesn't make what is happening dangerous to democracy.

[MadAmster]

Just about all of Europe has cut back on defence in the past 15 to 20 years. That trend is being reversed post haste. Quite right too.

[Trickytreesreds]

Just about all of Europe has cut back on defence in the past 15 to 20 years. That trend is being reversed post haste. Quite right too.

I would quite agree, but that has even been the party slogan for some here.
Imagine Corbyn winning 2019. Very best we could have hoped for, was the nukes gone. In his head, "if only the world had no armies or war"
Sounds familiar to the unicorns and everybody is nice world.
UK has done it's 2%, whilst many in NATO have taken the piss.

The old slogan still rings.
“Wars are not paid for in wartime, the bill comes later.” – Benjamin Franklin 8. “If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War.”

[swaledale]

All the countries most directly threatened by Russia want to join the European Union, and the one country that allowed the Putin regime the deepest access into the heart of its politics, commerce and culture, left it.

Go figure.

[ramAnag]

All the countries most directly threatened by Russia want to join the European Union, and the one country that allowed the Putin regime the deepest access into the heart of its politics, commerce and culture, left it.

Go figure.

Talking of which...did anyone notice our illustrious leader’s impression of Norman No Mates at the NATO gathering today?
Hanging around Uncle Joe...and even he looked embarrassed to be seen with the UK PM.
Seems unable to comb his hair, tie his tie properly or do his jacket up...on top of his ludicrous and divisive attempt to compare Brexiteers with Ukrainian ‘freedom fighters’...just a national embarrassment.

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh yearh Biden, the very definition of coherrent speech and something to be admired.

"I'm Irish, but just not stupid"

Brilliant, that will do it Joe, racist as well as senile

Still, as long as it's not Trump