O/T:- Transgenders in sport

[cher1]

Trans women are not "a boy who feels feminine", though. From talking to my trans friends, it cuts far far deeper than that - and indeed, is not the same as "boys who feel feminine", who in my experience present themselves in an entirely different way. There may be concern about one group being pushed towards the other (in both directions - this is what the calls to ban trans conversion therapy are about) but it is widely accepted they are not the same group.

Female vs open categories - I thought I was clear why not, but the answer is the near-impossibility of defining "female" for this purpose. "Female vs male" means those at the edges of the split get placed where it is seen to make most sense. "Female vs open" means some kind of specific gatekeeping about what defines a female, which will define many athletes (assigned/observed as female at birth, raised as female, always considered female) as "other" . Simply put, I do not believe - even with invasive tests and enforced hormones - we have an answer for that.

The lack of therapy full stop is a far bigger issue than any lack of exploratory therapy - as the Cass Interim Report makes very clear (see pages 51 and 69 in particular). Indeed it points to that lack of therapy as a cause of the drive towards affirmative approaches:

From the point of entry to GIDS there appears to be predominantly an affirmative, non-exploratory approach, often driven by child and parent expectations and the extent of social transition that has developed due to the delay in service provision.

Finally, I think the "don't believe women when they support trans rights" stance is pretty problematic. Her competitors didn't just stay quiet and refuse to speak out - they openly and loudly expressed their support. See https://www.newsweek.com/why-im-prou...pinion-1689192 for example.

I don't think anyone can say what a trans man or woman is. There's no definitive diagnosis. And my point was about young people who feel they don't belong because they don't fit narrow gender stereotypes, and particularly girls on the autistic spectrum who are over represented in this group, and what might happen to them.

There's really no issue defining female in sport, unless males want to take females places. Unless you are referring to inters e x which isn't what we are taking about here anyway.

I've agreed about the lack of therapy, and it's a huge safeguarding concern. And that makes giving puberty blockers without adequate therapy first even more dangerous. I also agree about the concerning drive to affirmative therapy, that's a major concern.

What do you make of David Bell's case?

Or Helen and Michael Webberley?

Maybe the third and fourth competitors did think it was a great idea to compete against Lia, others didn't and have said so. Many athletes have spoken about the unfairness of this scenario (maybe not this particular case) including Sharron Davies, Paula Radcliffe, Dame Kelly Holmes, Lord Coe, and several current GB athletes - male and female.

Can I ask how you would keep women safe in contact sports? World Rugby for example have conducted a thorough review and concluded that safety and fairness cannot presently be assured for women competing against trans women in contact rugby. Also that there's at least a 20-30% greater risk of injury risk factors when a female player is tackled by someone who has gone through male puberty.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

I found it strange the other day that Kier was on TV discussing how windfall taxes for the energy companies was a solution for reducing fuel Bill's then all of a sudden after trying to ridicule the solution they then asked him what his definition of a woman was...!
Who says our Media isn't tainted

[MarcusCole]

I found it strange the other day that Kier was on TV discussing how windfall taxes for the energy companies was a solution for reducing fuel Bill's then all of a sudden after trying to ridicule the solution they then asked him what his definition of a woman was...!
Who says our Media isn't tainted

How can you claim to stand for women's rights if you can't even define what a woman is? Labour try to stand on that claim but it rings hollow when you ask them to define what they mean.

[BigFatPie]

How can you claim to stand for women's rights if you can't even define what a woman is? Labour try to stand on that claim but it rings hollow when you ask them to define what they mean.

It might be better to judge a politician’s attitude to women’s rights by their actions rather than words.