League 1 it is then

[DCFCArmy]

Tricky

I don’t care all I wanted was Morris gone and he’s gone

As for your lot (granted you’ve come on here when we were chasing promotion) they only surfaced once we were in the doo doo

Can’t get ****ing shot of them now but they’ll soon disappear if and when it turns around the other way

Tw@ts

[DCFCArmy]

As for the administrators scum of the ****ing earth

It should be the fans who get to sort this out not some money grabbing pieces of dung sh*t in a suit

[MadAmster]

It should be the fans who get to sort this out not some money grabbing pieces of dung sh*t in a suit

What? To use the vernacular..... give yer head a wobble!!

To pay off the football debts fully and also 35% of the non-football debts is going to cost Kirchner around £45M. That avoids a 15 point penalty.

Please explain where you think the fans are going to get £45M from.

On top of that there's the £20M MM wants for the stadium so he can clear the loan on that. A further £3.5M Admin has had from MSD to keep the club afloat also needs paying back. Then there's whatever buying Moor Farm back would cost to be found as well.

Then there's going to be possible extra costs to cover any losses over the next 2 years.

At the end of all that there will still be something like £20M creditors just aren't going to get back. We currently owe HMRC £36M. Will they accept 35% (£12.6m)?

I await, with baited breath, your detailed explanation of how the fans can "sort this out"

[ramAnag]

With respect...neither of you have actually answered, or even attempted to answer, the question of how do you justify such wages/fees.
Essentially you’re both saying...because that’s how it is...and because, as accountants, it suits you both to maintain the status quo you seem happy for that to be the case.

You’re right, GP...I do broadly believe in a ‘fair days pay for a fair job’, but I’ve no idea how you ultimately define it.

Maybe I’m naive but I was genuinely shocked at your quoting of Quantuma’s £350 per hour charges and it seems to have opened something of a ‘can of worms’.
You accept that Q’s (imo exorbitant) charges have actually made the situation worse at DCFC and yet there seems to me little evidence of any great progress being made over the last eight incredibly expensive months.

Maybe what I’m saying then is that...along with the likes of lawyers and estate agents...accountants have created a system - a mystique even - which allows them to be considered as far more important than they actually are.
Perhaps also, over the last two years of crisis, we may have been given a different perspective in terms of which jobs are most crucial and again, with respect, it is the hospital workers, health and care workers, shop workers, teachers, refuse collectors, delivery drivers etc who have kept society functioning during the pandemic. No mention there of accountants.

Even in more normal times, should they ever return, it will be the same group of workers together with those in manufacturing and those who maintain the country’s infrastructure who, I’d suggest, will be the most crucial so I ask again...what is it that makes accountants so special and so, apparently, well rewarded?

[Ramshank72]

I can't tell if this thread is about Derby's next season in League One, DCFCArmy's conversation with himself and anyone who gets hooked into it, or the theory of economics and capitalism.
DCFCArmy: If you're going to write a rant, at least please keep it to a single post rather than several, that way it's only 1 ignored post that some of us need to scroll past.
ramAnag: If you're going to keep asking questions about economics when you don't want to accept or try to understand the answers, please consider making a relevant thread rather than plastering over a football matter.

[Geoff Parkstone]

With respect...neither of you have actually answered, or even attempted to answer, the question of how do you justify such wages/fees.
Essentially you’re both saying...because that’s how it is...and because, as accountants, it suits you both to maintain the status quo you seem happy for that to be the case.

You’re right, GP...I do broadly believe in a ‘fair days pay for a fair job’, but I’ve no idea how you ultimately define it.

Maybe I’m naive but I was genuinely shocked at your quoting of Quantuma’s £350 per hour charges and it seems to have opened something of a ‘can of worms’.
You accept that Q’s (imo exorbitant) charges have actually made the situation worse at DCFC and yet there seems to me little evidence of any great progress being made over the last eight incredibly expensive months.

Maybe what I’m saying then is that...along with the likes of lawyers and estate agents...accountants have created a system - a mystique even - which allows them to be considered as far more important than they actually are.
Perhaps also, over the last two years of crisis, we may have been given a different perspective in terms of which jobs are most crucial and again, with respect, it is the hospital workers, health and care workers, shop workers, teachers, refuse collectors, delivery drivers etc who have kept society functioning during the pandemic. No mention there of accountants.

Even in more normal times, should they ever return, it will be the same group of workers together with those in manufacturing and those who maintain the country’s infrastructure who, I’d suggest, will be the most crucial so I ask again...what is it that makes accountants so special and so, apparently, well rewarded?

I will respond to the question of your naivety only. Yes you are, just like many who live their life in castles in the air.

As to the rest of your demeaning claptrap, I refer you to Ramshank's eloquence. But at least the professionals that you clearly despise don't rip the system for 20 weeks paid holiday a year 😘

[ramAnag]

I can't tell if this thread is about Derby's next season in League One, DCFCArmy's conversation with himself and anyone who gets hooked into it, or the theory of economics and capitalism.
DCFCArmy: If you're going to write a rant, at least please keep it to a single post rather than several, that way it's only 1 ignored post that some of us need to scroll past.
ramAnag: If you're going to keep asking questions about economics when you don't want to accept or try to understand the answers, please consider making a relevant thread rather than plastering over a football matter.

Hang on a moment, Ramshank. My comments have stemmed entirely from GP’s revelation (to me at least) that Quantuma are - and apparently have been for the last eight months - charging £350 per hour. Yes, I’ve broadened the topic to question why those involved in such ‘professions’ are allowed/encouraged to charge such rates but my comments are very relevant to the mess that DCFC currently find themselves in and I was ‘talking’ to two accountants...hence the emphasis on accountancy practices. Given the circumstances I suggest you wind your neck in on this occasion.

GP...if you look back over our exchange I have been unfailingly polite.
As ever when you feel threatened you resort to rudeness, evasion and exaggeration, however I don’t feel I’ve been ‘demeaning’, I don’t ‘clearly despise’ professionals, teachers actually get 13 weeks ‘holiday’ a year (not 20) and I have no idea how my life takes the form of ‘castles in the air’. Perhaps you’d like to explain...but then that doesn’t seem to have been your strong point during this exchange.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I have tried and failed to satisfy you throughout this exchange and conclude that it's not possible for you to understand the explanation. The creditors of DCFC approve the administration costs, hence the large document that triggered this. It's them that are paying it and so should be satisfied on value for money, not you. If you want more, I suggest you ask HMRC why they are sanctioning this cost, as the primary creditor.

In the spirit of trying to help you understand I take my own fee negotiation as an example. It's always agreed in advance with client either per hour, per diem or fixed. I'd love to get 350 per hour plus but rarely get above 325 as you need to add VAT on top and not all clients are VAT registered to claim it back.

Look at it like this - the VAT I earn for HMRC per hour is probably more than you earned as a wage at your peak earnings. Feel better now?

[ramAnag]

I have tried and failed to satisfy you throughout this exchange and conclude that it's not possible for you to understand the explanation. The creditors of DCFC approve the administration costs, hence the large document that triggered this. It's them that are paying it and so should be satisfied on value for money, not you. If you want more, I suggest you ask HMRC why they are sanctioning this cost, as the primary creditor.

In the spirit of trying to help you understand I take my own fee negotiation as an example. It's always agreed in advance with client either per hour, per diem or fixed. I'd love to get 350 per hour plus but rarely get above 325 as you need to add VAT on top and not all clients are VAT registered to claim it back.

Look at it like this - the VAT I earn for HMRC per hour is probably more than you earned as a wage at your peak earnings. Feel better now?

I’d love it if, just for once, you could enter a debate without it becoming personal and while actually addressing the point.

As a POI, during my last year of full time employment (over a decade ago) I spent the first half of the academic year (as acting Head and the second half having returned (happily as it happens) to my more familiar role of Deputy Head. My overall salary was approximately £50,000 so...not for the first time today...(20 week’s annual holiday. Really?)...your figures would seem to be somewhat askew.

However I have raised two points.
1. It seems to me that Quantuma have been very good at raising money...for Quantuma! Let’s face it...back sometime before Christmas we were in a position to do business with Kirchner and now, four months further on, we’re...guess what...in a position to do business with Kirchner. In the meantime we’ve lost a load of players, been unable to do any strengthening, lost any chance of survival but never mind - and yes I fully accept neither you nor I or AF or even Ramshank know the complete circumstances - Q have allegedly enjoyed another four months of £350 per hour.

2. This isn’t meant to be personal but...other than answering with ‘that’s the way it is’ again...what is it you (accountants) actually do, what special skills do you actually have that can possibly justify charging £325-£350 per hour?

P.S. As an incidental aside. Given the Morris related mess that DCFC have found themselves in...is it not possible that actually the club’s/Morris’ accountants are in some way to blame or is that just my ‘naivety’ on display again?

[MadAmster]

GP - Total fallacy that teachers get 20 (or even 13) weeks PAID holiday a year.

Let's have a look at what happens when they take a day off to attend a funeral or or other "event". If they are paid for their holidays then taking a day's unpaid leave would see them lose 1/260th of their annual salary. (52 weeks, 5 days a week + 260 days --- maybe 1/240th taking into account 4 weeks paid leave.... you get the gist anyway).

What actually happens is they lose 1/ the number of school weeks*5 or roughly 1/200th of their annual salary. For the sake of argument, let's say a teacher gets 25K a year. Using your incorrect thoughts they'd lose around 25000 / 240 which is just under £105. They actually lose something like 1/195 or 200. That's, using the first figure, £128. Ergo, they do not get 13 or 20 weeks PAID holiday. How do I know this. Something my brother and his wife complained about right through their teaching careers and both had numerous arguments with simple thinking people who believed teachers get a huge amount of paid holidays. They don't. Never have.

Their salary is paid over 12 equal months which probably leads those less able with numbers to believe they do get 13 weeks PAID holiday. That you got conned by it as well may well prove rA's point of accountants being overpaid. Not something to which I subscribe. They ask exorbitant amounts because people/firms are prepared to pay that much because they believe that a good accountant will save them far more than they cost. Any item or service is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Your £325 per hour may seem very high but if you do 10 hours work for a client and save them £20K, they won't be bothered in the slightest by having to pay you £3250. It's called market forces and the better people in their field will get a good rep and can charge accordingly.