League 1 it is then

[ramAnag]

All very good points from MA (when doesn't this guy make such excellent input?!) and there is certainly room for reform that will help those at the lower ends of the earning scales... though it will only drive demand and rates for your accountants even more, so quids in for that profession.
Andy's point regarding DCFC's predicament, "The money wasn’t ‘found’, that’s a partisan spin on things, it was borrowed for non-recurring events at commercial rates and will be paid back by our descendants. Using the same device for ‘ongoing business’ (such as permanent pay rises) is exactly the type of behaviour that’s got The Rams in the ****", is right on the money, pun intended! Decisions like that would have been lead, or at the very least, sanctioned by the man at the top. So either Mel drove these decisions, or wasn't as clever a businessman as so many claimed, and simply said "yes".

I doubt very much that ‘those at the lower ends of the earning scales’ will be ‘driving demand and rates for your accountants’, Ramshank. That was surely one of MA’s points, but I’m glad we all seem to agree - so far - on the fact that there is ‘certainly room for reform’.

[Andy_Faber]

I doubt very much that ‘those at the lower ends of the earning scales’ will be ‘driving demand and rates for your accountants’, Ramshank. That was surely one of MA’s points, but I’m glad we all seem to agree - so far - on the fact that there is ‘certainly room for reform’.

Only an anecdote I know, but I’ve been using a chap for plastering recently, smokes a lot, drinks a lot, 20 year old car, no quals, his only asset in life is his gift-from-God ability to plaster, often asks for a midweek advance so clearly ‘struggles’ financially. Knowing my now-lapsed profession he asked me to look at his payslips for a job last year. I suggested he’d been overtaxed by maybe a grand but advised he took paid advice, I pointed him at an accountant, the bean counter charged him not a lot but reported back that my man had been overtaxed by about £2000. I rest my case in support of Ramshank

[Geoff Parkstone]

There is always room for tax reform, although whether taxation should be used as a blunt political instrument for levelling up is a moot point. Levelling up has to be achieved by increasing "gross pay" for the "goodie groups" somehow, not by penalising particular "baddie groups" through incremental taxation. Otherwise the state is effectively subsidising Robin Hood type activities!!

A switch to more earnings based taxes and less expenditure based tax is a good example of where tax-take neutral changes could be made that help the less well off - eg increase income tax by 1% and drop VAT by 2%. But these will not make huge shifts in relative wealth between employment types though.

The mantra of "tax the rich" has, I think, been proven to be counterproductive every time its been tried. The more you increase higher rate tax, the more people will try to avoid, and at extremes, evade it. Those mega rich simply leave the country, drop non-dom status etc and go elsewhere (especially following Brexit). Businesses leave the country as taxes / business inefficiencies increase (again, see Brexit). High tax rates simply encourage multinationals to remove profits from the higher tax jurisdiction - so you get a large bit of nothing rather than a modest bit of something.

The issue is a global one: where tax rates differ from country to country and where profits are easily switched to the lower tax jurisdiction. This isn't really something one country can solve in isolation: there has to be unity between the developed economies - which is unlikely as they are all competing to access those tax dollars. Developing countries will always seek to attract business to their economy with cheap tax rates. Then of course true third world countries more often than not do not have any income tax system and are totally reliant on overseas companies investing in their economies.

For all his sins as a PM Gordon Brown had a good instinctive feel for balancing the economy which successive Chancellors didn't have as good a handle on until Sunak - and his star has now been blighted for non job related issues.

The great thing about tax reform is that it creates lots more opportunities for accountants to make money, so careful what you with for rA: the profession is always one step ahead of the Treasury, since there is massive consultation before any changes are made.

[Ramshank72]

I doubt very much that ‘those at the lower ends of the earning scales’ will be ‘driving demand and rates for your accountants’, Ramshank. That was surely one of MA’s points, but I’m glad we all seem to agree - so far - on the fact that there is ‘certainly room for reform’.

To clarify for you: "reform" will drive demand for the accountancy (and associated financial) professions.

Edit: Geoff has answered this a lot more comprehensively.

[GUNTERYY36]

We should be reaady for the small clubs with inferiority complexes anyway

They’ll only be to glad we’re gracing their lands full stop

An actual big club like Sunderland

They should be grateful

It's comments like these that make Derby's relegation so richly deserved.

[MadAmster]

Multinationals should, IMO, pay tax on what they earn in the country they earn it in. That won't (or shouldn't) force them to go elsewhere as they will still want to sell goods/services in the UK. Tax on those sales should go to HM Treasury not to the Cayman's or similar.

Online sales platforms like eBay, Discogs, Etsy and others all pre collect VAT on overseas sales. No way round it. The way it should be. What this has done is cut sales values to take account of VAT. £100 records used to go for £100. These days the going rate is £100 minus VAT. Not just on the value of the item sold but also postage costs as well. I'm getting less for items (records) I sell and end up paying more for what I buy. Many UK sellers won't sell abroad anymore. EU sellers are deciding not to sell outside of the EU. Daftest thing is, I don't sell enough (idem ditto most sellers) to reach the VAT threshold so I shouldn't be collecting/paying VAT on sales/buys but I am and there's no claiming it back. I don't have (don't want either) a VAT number as I will never sell enough in a year to warrant paying VAT to the local tax collector.

All they've succeeded in doing is hitting the market negatively. The drop will mean they'll probably get less in VAT from the 2nd hand 45 market than they used to. They've probably reduced the value of my collection by between 25% and 30%. As and when I sell it off I'll still be in profit but there'll be no tax involved because I'm not a retail outlet. I merely sell stuff I no longer want or I've found a more pristine copy.

[ramAnag]

It's comments like these that make Derby's relegation so richly deserved.

But comments ‘like these’ are not indicative of what Derby supporters believe...they are just the ‘thoughts’ of our occasional resident ‘wild card’.

[ramAnag]

Only an anecdote I know, but I’ve been using a chap for plastering recently, smokes a lot, drinks a lot, 20 year old car, no quals, his only asset in life is his gift-from-God ability to plaster, often asks for a midweek advance so clearly ‘struggles’ financially. Knowing my now-lapsed profession he asked me to look at his payslips for a job last year. I suggested he’d been overtaxed by maybe a grand but advised he took paid advice, I pointed him at an accountant, the bean counter charged him not a lot but reported back that my man had been overtaxed by about £2000. I rest my case in support of Ramshank

Good for the ‘bean counter’, but, as MA intimated initially...hardly representative of most accountants’ usual clients.

[Andy_Faber]

Good for the ‘bean counter’, but, as MA intimated initially...hardly representative of most accountants’ usual clients.

Not demeaning this time but indicative of a lack of understanding of what ‘accountants’ actually do and who they do it for. Not even anything personal rA, although I fell out of love with the profession some time ago I believe it’s the most misunderstood of the business disciplines and the one who’s practitioners are most valuable in any given business

[ramAnag]

Not demeaning this time but indicative of a lack of understanding of what ‘accountants’ actually do and who they do it for. Not even anything personal rA, although I fell out of love with the profession some time ago I believe it’s the most misunderstood of the business disciplines and the one who’s practitioners are most valuable in any given business

I haven’t at any time intended to be ‘demeaning’ AF. I have friends who might be best described as manual workers (gardener, plumber, electrician and joiner) who all employ accountants. None of them fit the description you have provided of your plasterer however they are all self employed ‘bosses’. I’m not sure if your plasterer fits that description or not but the fact that it is your relationship with someone who is effectively an ‘employee’ that has led him to consult an accountant for the first time tells us it was hardly an ordinary course of action.

I’ll readily admit I know next to nothing about the ‘business disciplines’ but I do know someone who, having lost his job as a result of the pandemic has shown the guts and determination to set up in business himself. He tells me that taking on an accountant has been enormously beneficial to the task of setting himself up. He also tells me that he has been amazed at some of the things he has been allowed to claim for.