The Wokeness Thread

[ramAnag]

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

I remember a time when this matter got no more complex than some slightly dubious East German and Russian athletes but surely the answer is found in common sense.

What separates male and females in virtually any sport you care to mention is simple strength. Hence those who can run fastest, jump highest, kick, hit or throw a ball hardest are male. That’s not a *exist point or me being judgemental about women’s sport... it’s just how it is. The ‘best’ athletes, cricketers, footballers, tennis players and golfers are all male.

Sport is almost unique in this respect. The male dominance aspect doesn’t (or shouldn’t) imo, translate to other areas of life where the only barriers to equality are cultural and remain in need of addressing.

However, as far as sport is concerned can we really cater equally for each and every minority and are not the ones who will really suffer those ‘natural females’ who might find themselves competing against trans gender females who possess ‘male’ strength? That can’t be right but the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.

[Trickytreesreds]

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

I remember a time when this matter got no more complex than some slightly dubious East German and Russian athletes but surely the answer is found in common sense.

What separates male and females in virtually any sport you care to mention is simple strength. Hence those who can run fastest, jump highest, kick, hit or throw a ball hardest are male. That’s not a *exist point or me being judgemental about women’s sport... it’s just how it is. The ‘best’ athletes, cricketers, footballers, tennis players and golfers are all male.

Sport is almost unique in this respect. The male dominance aspect doesn’t (or shouldn’t) imo, translate to other areas of life where the only barriers to equality are cultural and remain in need of addressing.

However, as far as sport is concerned can we really cater equally for each and every minority and are not the ones who will really suffer those ‘natural females’ who might find themselves competing against trans gender females who possess ‘male’ strength? That can’t be right but the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.

Yes you are totally correct RA.
But a loud mouth minority of protestors, seem to be able to bully people and organisations into submission to conform to their demands.
Common sense I'm afraid, is not on their agenda.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/2...a-ban-history/

[ramAnag]

Yes you are totally correct RA.
But a loud mouth minority of protestors, seem to be able to bully people and organisations into submission to conform to their demands.
Common sense I'm afraid, is not on their agenda.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/2...a-ban-history/

Indeed Tricky...always the way...but some of those you have regularly defended - Tommy Robinson, Farage, Priti Patel amongst others - have frequently been amongst the loudest mouths and the biggest bullies.

It is beholden on those of us in possession of both a functioning moral compass and appropriate level of common sense to ensure that decency and logic win over boorishness and extremism however it manifests itself.

[Trickytreesreds]

Indeed Tricky...always the way...but some of those you have regularly defended - Tommy Robinson, Farage, Priti Patel amongst others - have frequently been amongst the loudest mouths and the biggest bullies.

It is beholden on those of us in possession of both a functioning moral compass and appropriate level of common sense to ensure that decency and logic win over boorishness and extremism however it manifests itself.

Garbage. Where has Tommy Robinson got his own way?
Where has Farage or Patel?

Have they attacked an organisation into submission?
JK Rowling is a classic example. She explained a woman using common sense. Has been hounded by social media and the far left press into the corner.
Even the people from her book series, who she made millionaires, have ostracised her.

Exactly whose moral compass is correct here? Commin sense it seems, has broad horizons.

[ramAnag]

Garbage. Where has Tommy Robinson got his own way?
Where has Farage or Patel?

Have they attacked an organisation into submission?
JK Rowling is a classic example. She explained a woman using common sense. Has been hounded by social media and the far left press into the corner.
Even the people from her book series, who she made millionaires, have ostracised her.

Exactly whose moral compass is correct here? Commin sense it seems, has broad horizons.

I didn’t say they had...although Farage did over the EU and Patel did over Rwanda...what I said was that they were amongst the loudest mouths and the biggest bullies, the implication being that you are very selective with regard to your criticism of ‘loud mouthed bullies’.

P.S. Sorry I know nothing about the JK Rowling row and am not equipped to comment.

[Trickytreesreds]

I didn’t say they had...although Farage did over the EU and Patel did over Rwanda...what I said was that they were amongst the loudest mouths and the biggest bullies, the implication being that you are very selective with regard to your criticism of ‘loud mouthed bullies’.

P.S. Sorry I know nothing about the JK Rowling row and am not equipped to comment.

Who has Farage bullied?
Exactly who has Patel bullied?

Was it through their jobs, or in the press, piling public pressure of folks? That's the bit I'm talking about. Ridiculing folks in public, trying to shush them into submission.
Bullying comes in many forms.
But it is also termed as a defence by someone who doesn't like being told what to do.

JKR- Then I suggest you do so.
You aren't really in a position to talk about the issue of woke, until you understand all the parameters being used by it.
Her treatment is outrageous.

[ramAnag]

Who has Farage bullied?
Exactly who has Patel bullied?

Was it through their jobs, or in the press, piling public pressure of folks? That's the bit I'm talking about. Ridiculing folks in public, trying to shush them into submission.
Bullying comes in many forms.
But it is also termed as a defence by someone who doesn't like being told what to do.

JKR- Then I suggest you do so.
You aren't really in a position to talk about the issue of woke, until you understand all the parameters being used by it.
Her treatment is outrageous.

Farage apparently had a reputation as a schoolboy bully and his political ‘style’ may most accurately be described as ‘hectoring’ which is pretty much the definition of the ‘loud mouthed bullying’ you claim to object to.

I believe the Home Office had to spend £370,000 on settling claims against Patel bullying civil servants.

I don’t believe I have to be fully aware of the JK Rowling situation to have an opinion on ‘woke’. I’m offering an opinion not claiming expertise and I doubt even you ‘understand all the parameters’.

[Andy_Faber]

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

….. the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.

Yet that’s where it DOES become such. Common sense, in the minds of those who support the inclusion of male to female tg athletes in female sport, does not exist, and they necessarily (to strengthen their argument for inclusion of a dominant minority) DO complicate things

On this one I really do have a strong opinion and imo Seb Coe is right, fairness must always stand above inclusion