McClean whinging again.

[John2]

LOL, OK, I have you sussed out... bible basher.

You probably watch and listen to the BBC's drivel (paid for by extortion).

Wrong.

You never answer any specific criticisms of your sinister, horrible and clearly dangerous Wokery religion (e.g. the RAF recruitment madness).

All I've said is that I'm capitalist and that I'm also uncomfortable with people going through male puberty winning women's sporting competitions.

What on earth is wrong with Christians? In the last century they have done far less harm than your nasty destructive Marxist friends. "Critical Race Theory" like the other "Critical Theories" is an idiotic dogma without any foundation in fact and it is being forcibly imposed on our helpless children against the will and even without the knowledge of their parents by very ignorant and irresponsible adults in an atmosphere of fear. It is being enabled by extreme left-wing policies in the establishment and I am sorry to say in central government.

Nothing wrong with "Christians", but Christianity is an outdated, irrelevant nonsense that is used to divide humans. Religions are poisonous ideologies that encourage us to look at each other based on our religion rather than as fellow human beings.

The words in the bible are used to orchestrate many acts of oppression and have been through history.

Whatever you think about Christianity (which is not without its own loonies e.g., creationists), at least it gave us glorious culture - music, art and architecture. All we have ever had from Marxism is misery.

Marxist culture has been crap, I agree, I'm no supporter of communism, as you have already been told and ignored.

Culture is subjective.

I was baptised and used to get taken to church as a kid and found the services unbelievably boring and tedious. I wouldn't subject my children to that.

Boring old songs, the same ones every week that people have been singing for hundreds of years. yawn.

I was in Rome last week, and I confess there is some stunning architecture. But we also have exceptional modern architecture for non religious buildings too.

I can honestly say I find immersing in the hedonism and light show of a good music festival literally 1000x more entertaining and a greater contribution to culture than going to church on a Sunday. Driven by technology and science I've seen more innovation in festivals and entertainment in the last 10 years than in 1000 years of the stagnant churches. That's my opinion, I'm sure you'd hate the festivals too, you are entitled to prefer being brainwashed at boring church services.

What you don't get and I will not allow is this self-righteous belief that the culture you enjoy is "better" than mine. It's not based on anything other than your own ignorance.

I've been around long enough to recognise brainwashing when I see it. Any rational person would rather have their children educated by intelligent, caring, knowledgeable Christians than by shadowy secretive characters who are straight out of a John Wyndham novel.

No sh*t. A hell of a straw man.

You'd rather have your kids raised by intelligent, caring, knowledgeable Marxists than by shadowy secretive child abusers.But you're more likely to find the latter in a position of power in a church.

In the end you have a big advantage over those of us who oppose you in online arguments - your opponents are the ones who can find themselves in court accused of "crimes".

And yet still, silence... name one of these things people used to be able to say that they can't now?

I've not had a single example.

[vaterland_miller]

LOL, OK, I have you sussed out... bible basher.



Wrong.



All I've said is that I'm capitalist and that I'm also uncomfortable with people going through male puberty winning women's sporting competitions.



Nothing wrong with "Christians", but Christianity is an outdated, irrelevant nonsense that is used to divide humans. Religions are poisonous ideologies that encourage us to look at each other based on our religion rather than as fellow human beings.

The words in the bible are used to orchestrate many acts of oppression and have been through history.



Marxist culture has been crap, I agree, I'm no supporter of communism, as you have already been told and ignored.

Culture is subjective.

I was baptised and used to get taken to church as a kid and found the services unbelievably boring and tedious. I wouldn't subject my children to that.

Boring old songs, the same ones every week that people have been singing for hundreds of years. yawn.

I was in Rome last week, and I confess there is some stunning architecture. But we also have exceptional modern architecture for non religious buildings too.

I can honestly say I find immersing in the hedonism and light show of a good music festival literally 1000x more entertaining and a greater contribution to culture than going to church on a Sunday. Driven by technology and science I've seen more innovation in festivals and entertainment in the last 10 years than in 1000 years of the stagnant churches. That's my opinion, I'm sure you'd hate the festivals too, you are entitled to prefer being brainwashed at boring church services.

What you don't get and I will not allow is this self-righteous belief that the culture you enjoy is "better" than mine. It's not based on anything other than your own ignorance.



No sh*t. A hell of a straw man.

You'd rather have your kids raised by intelligent, caring, knowledgeable Marxists than by shadowy secretive child abusers.But you're more likely to find the latter in a position of power in a church.



And yet still, silence... name one of these things people used to be able to say that they can't now?

I've not had a single example.

I gave you an example and there are many. You ignored it.

I am sure we will agree on what should happen if children are being groomed by *****philes (of whatever religion). Please tell me what should happen if children are being groomed by teachers who are indoctrinating them with "Critical" sociological theories instead of teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic.

What specifically is wrong with traditional Christian values? Why do you believe that the culture we have inherited is "washed-up old ideology" and what of the millions of others in the UK who disagree with you and who don't want everything smashing up? Where is the sacred religion of wokery defined - or do you just make it up as you go along (I know the answer)? All the many social problems around us are getting worse as your new culture is forced upon the world.

Lasers are amazing. However, if you think flashing lights and lasers and loud rhythmic sounds are in any way comparable to the emotional experience created by a genius composer and highly skilled musicians, you don't even understand what culture is so it is hardly surprising that you want to help to destroy it and its foundations. If you can't appreciate Mozart's religious music, take a look at the exquisite beauty and the unbelievable skill in the incredible art treasures in the crypt at St Bavo's Cathedral, Ghent (that have incidentally survived many attempts by mindless revolutionaries to destroy them) and tell me what is their equivalent in your brave new world.

[John2]

I gave you an example and there are many. You ignored it.

Which one? Your vague reference to sporting competitions which I agreed I shared the concerns with!?

I am sure we will agree on what should happen if children are being groomed by *****philes (of whatever religion). Please tell me what should happen if children are being groomed by teachers who are indoctrinating them with "Critical" sociological theories instead of teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic.

We may disagree that teaching children to not be racist is a bad thing. But the hypocrisy is staggering here when you talk of indoctrination given that my childhood in school involved singing hymns and doing the lords prayer every day.

What specifically is wrong with traditional Christian values? Why do you believe that the culture we have inherited is "washed-up old ideology" and what of the millions of others in the UK who disagree with you and who don't want everything smashing up? Where is the sacred religion of wokery defined - or do you just make it up as you go along (I know the answer)? All the many social problems around us are getting worse as your new culture is forced upon the world.

We're allowed to disagree. Christianity has been used to repress gay people and women for a very long time. Do you agree?

Lasers are amazing. However, if you think flashing lights and lasers and loud rhythmic sounds are in any way comparable to the emotional experience created by a genius composer and highly skilled musicians, you don't even understand what culture is so it is hardly surprising that you want to help to destroy it and its foundations. If you can't appreciate Mozart's religious music, take a look at the exquisite beauty and the unbelievable skill in the incredible art treasures in the crypt at St Bavo's Cathedral, Ghent (that have incidentally survived many attempts by mindless revolutionaries to destroy them) and tell me what is their equivalent in your brave new world.

There you go showing your ignorance again. And more straw men. I never criticised Mozart... it was more the boring, droning on "all things bright and beautiful" and its ilk that in my experience British churches repeat ad nauseum.

I also acknowledged the beauty in the architecture and will extend that to the art. That doesn't mean it's not a load of old nonsense, or we should be brainwashing our kids into old-fashioned Christian values of homophobia and misogyny because some talented middle-ages artists had no choice but to be Christian.

[vaterland_miller]

Which one? Your vague reference to sporting competitions which I agreed I shared the concerns with!?

no

We may disagree that teaching children to not be racist is a bad thing.

"Critical Race Theory" is quite obviously a "racist" dogma anyway and its intention seems to be to stir up racial hatred. Do you think it should used to indoctrinate children in schools (secretly or against the wishes of parents)? Do you think that teachers who object to it should be sacked? Do you think people should be in fear of the consequences of criticizing it? And what about traditional conservative teachers and university academics - should they be eliminated from the education system?

Christianity has been used to repress gay people and women for a very long time. Do you agree?

Christianity has been used for a lot of bad things - that is the nature of religion

"all things bright and beautiful"

Oh dear - now that is suffering. I draw the line at that.

old-fashioned Christian values of homophobia and misogyny

Do you have examples of Christ promoting homophobia and misogyny? - I don't know of any. There are perhaps some examples of him making racial remarks. But race obsessed lefties tie themselves in logical knots with their condescending attitude to members of other races (effectively patting them on the head with the "I'll look after you - don't worry" attitude).

[John2]

"Critical Race Theory" is quite obviously a "racist" dogma anyway and its intention seems to be to stir up racial hatred. Do you think it should used to indoctrinate children in schools (secretly or against the wishes of parents)? Do you think that teachers who object to it should be sacked? Do you think people should be in fear of the consequences of criticizing it? And what about traditional conservative teachers and university academics - should they be eliminated from the education system?

The problem we have here is that we fundamentally disagree on your opening premise, so all your follow-up questions are irrelevant. I've not encountered an argument to convince me that critical race theory is racist. How have you come to your conclusion? A few right-wing propaganda videos the YouTube algorithm or Daily Mail columnists fed I suspect.

Christianity has been used for a lot of bad things - that is the nature of religion

Wait.. exactly, we agree. So let's leave it in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Do you have examples of Christ promoting homophobia and misogyny?

I mean it's literally there at the beginning, Eve was created from a man's rib. Many brands of Christianity don't even allow women to be vicars or priests.

LEVITICUS 18:22 “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”

is the likely cause of many centuries of oppression of homo***uals, and some lingering homophobia remains as our society's legacy of its past Christian culture.

[vaterland_miller]

The problem we have here is that we fundamentally disagree on your opening premise, so all your follow-up questions are irrelevant. I've not encountered an argument to convince me that critical race theory is racist. How have you come to your conclusion? A few right-wing propaganda videos the YouTube algorithm or Daily Mail columnists fed I suspect.

There's plenty of coverage of CRT. Your Woke crowd always criticize any argument by sneering at publications or sources of material that opens them up to scrutiny. If you think that preaching that white children in some urban hell hole are "privileged" because of the colour of their skin is something that will make the world better, then you have a serious problem and no amount of sanctimonious talk about how you hold the correct views on all your pet subjects can cover that. But it just goes to prove what I have always asserted, that the word "racist" is meaningless because it can be applied accurately to everyone.

Wait.. exactly, we agree. So let's leave it in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Well lets discard books in that dustbin too whilst we are at it because they can be used mischievously too - oops sorry, thats what Marxists do isn't it. Discard and destroy is what Woke is all about.

I mean it's literally there at the beginning, Eve was created from a man's rib. Many brands of Christianity don't even allow women to be vicars or priests.

LEVITICUS 18:22 “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”

is the likely cause of many centuries of oppression of homo***uals, and some lingering homophobia remains as our society's legacy of its past Christian culture.

You didn't learn much at your school in spite of all the religion you claimed was thrown at you (together with your Google skill). Christianity is the subject of the New Testament.

The computer you are typing upon is the product of 2000 years of Judeo-Christian culture.

[John2]

The computer you are typing upon is the product of 2000 years of Judeo-Christian culture.

LOL. You actually believe this don't you?

You must have conveniently forgotten about the dark ages. There is a clear correlation between secularism and the advancement of technology.

On CRT, I went to Clifton Comp in the 90s, one of the worst performing in the town.

I know full well how tough working-class white kids from Rotherham have it.

Do you think a working-class person with otherwise identical qualifications, experiences, and personality as me, but of Pakistani ancestry, has otherwise identical prospects at a job interview?

Let me put that question a different way...

If the people of millers mad were collectively interviewing for a job, and they have identical working-class candidates in all areas except ethnicity... who do you think they would hire?

We know the answer. Acknowledging and being aware of these things isn't racist. Not that that's necessarily what CRT is.

My point is, just because white working-class people also have it tough, it doesn't mean we can't also consider the implications of race in our society.