O/T Trussed in Leader gone

[John2]

All I did was point out that our current predicament isn’t just down to Brexit. The 6 years of political infighting and failure to respect the vote hasn’t helped.

This idea is a fantasy. In a country so utterly divided, socially and politically, how on earth did you think it was going to play out?

Even the Brexiteers STILL can't agree on what kind of Brexit they wanted and why. We live in a democracy, it was always going to be the utter disaster it has proven.

[mygiddypant]

How’s it affected you? You sound like someone who prefers to moan rather than get on with it.

Waiting for someone else to fix their problems for them.

It’s the British way these days.

Do you read what you've written before posting it?

[mygiddypant]

That bastion of far left lunacy has made this documentary seperating the impact of brexit from that of other economic factors. Very revealing for anyone interested

https://youtu.be/wO2lWmgEK1Y

Don't think this has appeared in the Daily Express / Mail / Torygraph, so can't be true.

Did you know that Princess Diana was killed by the royal family?

[great_fire]

Don't know how Brexit can be blamed for economic problems that are affecting the entire world.

Lockdowns, QE and Ukraine War are the sources of our problems.

[ragingpup]

Don't know how Brexit can be blamed for economic problems that are affecting the entire world.

Lockdowns, QE and Ukraine War are the sources of our problems.

Did you watch the financial Times doc I posted? It goes to great lengths to draw out the differences between how the recent economic factors have affected different local countries and how the UK, having erected trading barriers with its nearest traders, have sufferered very specific economic shrinkage due to brexit. Have a look and then post your thoughts?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Makes me smile when folks say we live in a democracy

For some it's one day every 4 years or so but when they don't get the result they like they turn into Violet Elizabeth Bott until the next election

[ragingpup]

Very interesting RP, and it's hard to argue against anything in that video. It's a strong case against Brexit.

However, what both sides of the argument conveniently ignore is why a majority of the British public who bothered to vote, voted for Brexit in the first place. It was essentially the disenfranchised, the disillusioned (with politics) and the "ordinary Joe" who'd had enough of their living standards being eroded by successive governments. Rightly or wrongly, the EU was seen as a bastion of the establishment that had made their lives much harder, so they kicked against it...very hard! That vote pushed it over the line.

Until the reasons why many people feel this way is recognised and openly and properly discussed there's absolutely no point in banging on about how much worse off we are now because of Brexit. It will fall on deaf ears.

There's no doubt peoples living standards are being eroded over time - in fact it's gathering pace. Brexit is having an effect, but it's not the root cause, and it wasn't the root cause prior to 2016. Sorry to keep saying it but neoliberal economics over the last 30-40 years is to blame.

Tax the rich. End of story.

I hear you shank and pretty much agree with your analysis of the reasons behind where we are and the ultimate conclusion that the only significant wealth that is available that can possibly make a difference to public services is to redirect from those who have gained the most in the last three decades or so.

The problem is how do you frame a convincing argument to do that that will win a popular vote? The wealth is very well protected by the media owners who help shore up the status quo and sway popular opinion against acting even in its own interests but also, I think that economies are also more complex than we think and that there is actual truth in the fact that the wealth you are trying to redistribute can be very easily moved around the world and any such arguments for what you suggest have to first of all convince the masses that they are not going to crash the economy further by targeting wealth and actually literally find ways of adapting the tax system so that the wealth that has been built up can't be easily moved away from the UK in the first place.

Wish it was as easy as "tax the rich".

[ragingpup]

Makes me smile when folks say we live in a democracy

For some it's one day every 4 years or so but when they don't get the result they like they turn into Violet Elizabeth Bott until the next election

We absolutely do live in a democracy. And it's right that the vote was honoured.

But since when did actually pointing out the economic outcome of a vote make it any slight on a democracy? Its simply pointing out the evidence of what had happened as a result of the vote to our economy. That's all.

If in the future, a political party argues to rejoin the EU or single market, and gains enough votes to enact on that mandate, that is also democracy in action.

Nothing wrong with democracy. Just your perceptions of it!

[mygiddypant]

Did you watch the financial Times doc I posted? It goes to great lengths to draw out the differences between how the recent economic factors have affected different local countries and how the UK, having erected trading barriers with its nearest traders, have sufferered very specific economic shrinkage due to brexit. Have a look and then post your thoughts?

Of course he didn't! It's too boring because it deals with facts that are uncomfortable to his mindset. Life is much easier when your views are formed by the blathering of Trump and Johnson. FAKE NEWS!

Fake news is a fact because, well, that's what I've been told. Don't believe in experts! Believe in diddley doo, la-la land.

[Pattylallacks2]

Let's agree on one thing. It is what it is. We are out of Europe and in our lifetimes there is probably no going back.
But anyone who thinks that we are now or are likely to be any time soon, better off in any way for Brexit they have the intellectual capacity of a snail's arsehole.