O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[andy6025]

Again you sidestep the issue... although the fact that you aren't debating that Russia used Iranian drones is weird for you. You realise the Kremlin is still denying that? Or am I behind on that one and they've given up?

Anyway, the issue is simply this: The desperation part is needing to go to Iran, formerly very much the junior partner in warcrimes and terrorism, and beg them for suicide drones, because Russia's wasted so many of of their PGMs. Oops!

Russia says they’re jointly developed and are produced in Russia. Whether that’s true or bullshīt is neither here nor there to me. Nor do I think those on the receiving end can tell the difference. Either way, the drones, missiles and the air strikes have Zalensky asking for air defences... or do you prefer the term begging?

You might also be gleefully excited to know that NK is supplying Russia with artillery shells. Apparently they’ve recently struck a deal for a quantity that numbers in the millions. Perhaps that too is a sign that Ukraine is about to march on Moscow.

Anyways, hopefully they all get to the negotiating table soon. I’m sure in the end we all want the same thing - peace.

[Jampie]

Peace after Russia has handed back every last postage stamp of land they stole, returned every citizen they abducted and paid about a trillion bucks to repair the damage they caused to civilian infrastructure and homes.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are people of low to zero moral character who think it's ok to invade a country and annexe bits of it.

[andy6025]

Peace after Russia has handed back every last postage stamp of land they stole, returned every citizen they abducted and paid about a trillion bucks to repair the damage they caused to civilian infrastructure and homes.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are people of low to zero moral character who think it's ok to invade a country and annexe bits of it.

Lol, you’re a card.

But as they say: every cloud has a silver lining. Next time I get my LMT voting slip in the mail I’ll defo pencil you in for the board.

[i961pie]

Peace after Russia has handed back every last postage stamp of land they stole, returned every citizen they abducted and paid about a trillion bucks to repair the damage they caused to civilian infrastructure and homes.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are people of low to zero moral character who think it's ok to invade a country and annexe bits of it.

You and every fair minded decent person thinks the same.

[maddogslater]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

[jackal2]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

I think it's perfectly possible to condemn Putin's attack on the Ukraine but at the same time acknowledge that the West did play a major part in provoking it. Disproportionate aggression ultimately comes from a place of fear, and in Russia's case it was the (broadly justified) impression that they were becoming ever more surrounded by NATO. Many elements of the Western media try to portray the battle as a very simple 'good guys' versus 'bad guys' scenario, but it certainly isn't that simple.

[drillerpie]

Fair minded or brainwashed by Western media, article from 8 years ago by one of the few journalists with morality warning of what came to pass
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ia-john-pilger

Well you know what you're going to get with John Pilger. West bad (fair enough, there's a lot to dislike, especially the further back in history you go), anyone anti-West good (Putin the fair minded anti-fascist ha ha).

Not sure I'd be able to get an article published in a national newspaper based on a quote from a deleted Facebook page, but he managed it so well done him.

[drillerpie]

I think it's perfectly possible to condemn Putin's attack on the Ukraine but at the same time acknowledge that the West did play a major part in provoking it. Disproportionate aggression ultimately comes from a place of fear, and in Russia's case it was the (broadly justified) impression that they were becoming ever more surrounded by NATO. Many elements of the Western media try to portray the battle as a very simple 'good guys' versus 'bad guys' scenario, but it certainly isn't that simple.

I think Russia, far from being provoked, has been treated with kid gloves for a long time. The idea being that if you let them get away with everything, keep buying more and more natural resources from them, eventually they will come round.

Disproportionate aggression can also come from widely shared idea of the manifest destiny of the 'Russian World', and a perceived weakness of the people you're being aggressive against.

I personally don't buy the NATO excuse, or the denazificiation / desatanisation excuse, or protecting Russian speakers excuse.

I think you just have to listen to what they say and watch what they do to understand their motivations.

[Jampie]

"America did bad things therefore it's fine for Russia to invade and conquer other nations" is a ridiculous non-argument that I'm sure nobody's trying to make.

[maddogslater]

Well you know what you're going to get with John Pilger. West bad (fair enough, there's a lot to dislike, especially the further back in history you go), anyone anti-West good (Putin the fair minded anti-fascist ha ha).

It's not just the John pilger article though, new York Times, Washington Post articles from around the same time saying the same basically how corrupt and full of neo nazis at high levels of power is the Ukraine.
Don't know if you read the pilger article on why the UK really voted for brexit a few years ago, he writes the truth however unpalatable it is.