O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[i961pie]

As usual, Andy is repeating the Kremlin lines basically word for word.

The Kremlin propaganda minister.

[Jampie]

A good documentary just came out on the Ukrainian civil war from the perspective of people living in the Donbas being shelled indiscriminately by their own government. Worth a watch.

No it isn't, it's Kremlin propaganda.

[i961pie]

No it isn't, it's Kremlin propaganda.

I meant Andy was😋

[drillerpie]

No it isn't, it's Kremlin propaganda.

I watched the first few minutes to give it a chance. You can win a game of Russian talking points bingo inside the first 30 seconds pretty much - coup d'etat, nazis, etc but I carried on until the film maker covered the illegal Russian invasion and annexation of Ukraine in about half a second with three words: 'Crimea became Russian'. That's when I figured out I wasn't watching a documentary, let alone a good documentary.

In the credits it says the film was made by two people: Donald Courter and Jeff Monson.

If you look up Donald Courter's website his address is listed as 3 Borovaya Street, Moscow - Russian Federation. His bio describes him as RT International’s youngest correspondent and news anchor. He has a large Russia Today logo featured prominently on his website.

The other film maker, Jeff Monson, is an American MMA fighter who took Russian citizenship in 2016, has led a commemorative parade across Red Square to Lenin's mausoleum, and is a member of the local parliament of a city near Moscow, representing Vladimir Putin's United Russia party.

If this film was made recently and they both live in Russia, then I think it would be literally illegal for him to say anything about the war that differs from the official Russian government position. That's assuming they might want to say anything different from the official government position, which from what I can gather they wouldn't.

[i961pie]

Well fancy that😜

[andy6025]

I watched the first few minutes to give it a chance. You can win a game of Russian talking points bingo inside the first 30 seconds pretty much - coup d'etat, nazis, etc but I carried on until the film maker covered the illegal Russian invasion and annexation of Ukraine in about half a second with three words: 'Crimea became Russian'. That's when I figured out I wasn't watching a documentary, let alone a good documentary.

In the credits it says the film was made by two people: Donald Courter and Jeff Monson.

If you look up Donald Courter's website his address is listed as 3 Borovaya Street, Moscow - Russian Federation. His bio describes him as RT International’s youngest correspondent and news anchor. He has a large Russia Today logo featured prominently on his website.

The other film maker, Jeff Monson, is an American MMA fighter who took Russian citizenship in 2016, has led a commemorative parade across Red Square to Lenin's mausoleum, and is a member of the local parliament of a city near Moscow, representing Vladimir Putin's United Russia party.

If this film was made recently and they both live in Russia, then I think it would be literally illegal for him to say anything about the war that differs from the official Russian government position. That's assuming they might want to say anything different from the official government position, which from what I can gather they wouldn't.

What I find strikingly interesting and different about this documentary is that they actually talk to the people in Donbas and show what the people have to say.

Ironically, it’s *because* the Ukrainian and western governments are so dismissive of the lives and viewpoints of the people of Donbas that Ukraine is in this mess.

Oh well. Hopefully they’ll open their ears soon and start listening to each other soon.

[Jampie]

Ukraine is in "this mess" because Russia invaded.

Everything else is a lie.

[applepie2]

What I find strikingly interesting and different about this documentary is that they actually talk to the people in Donbas and show what the people have to say.

Ironically, it’s *because* the Ukrainian and western governments are so dismissive of the lives and viewpoints of the people of Donbas that Ukraine is in this mess.

Oh well. Hopefully they’ll open their ears soon and start listening to each other soon.

“The people of Donbas” or carefully selected people in Donbas?

[andy6025]

“The people of Donbas” or carefully selected people in Donbas?

Watch it and decide for yourself. And by all means post the testimonies of people in Donbas that you think are the correct people to hear from.

The more we listen to everyone the better.

[applepie2]

Watch it and decide for yourself. And by all means post the testimonies of people in Donbas that you think are the correct people to hear from.

The more we listen to everyone the better.

I have no reason to think that the people in the documentary aren’t authentic, but it would be astonishing if there were not opposing views. After all, some misguided people support Forest. My point was simply that the documentary makes no attempt at balance. An invasion, or an insurrection, is not a good way to achieve change. In our own country, most worthwhile change has been made by pointing out injustice and winning arguments, which is a slow and frustrating process but can achieve results in the long term.