O/T:- The NHS strike - for or against?

[magpie_mania]

"Pressure on the NHS is "intolerable and unsustainable", according to the British Medical Association (BMA) which represents doctors. Chair of the BMA council, Professor Phil Banfield, has called on the government to "step up and take immediate action" to solve the crisis".

"According to the Royal College of Emergency Medicine (RCEM) - which monitors standards of care in UK A&E departments - the NHS is facing the worst winter for A&E waits on record and some A&E departments are in a "complete state of crisis". Dr Ian Higginson, the college's vice-president, said he was in "no doubt" there was a risk to patients".

"The NHS is likely to remain on a “crisis footing” with rising waiting lists as extra funding outlined in Jeremy Hunt's autumn statement was, in real-terms, less than a decade ago, analysis has found".

“What we’re seeing now in terms of these long waits is being associated with increased mortality, and we think somewhere between 300-500 people are dying as a consequence of delays and problems with urgent and emergency care each week. We need to actually get a grip of this".

Just a few quotes from either mainstream media or respected medical bodies, nothing from extreme sources. And we have a government that is doing nothing at all to tackle the problems, it's just letting people die before their time.

Disgraceful and immoral.

Not sure the Govt are doing nothing, but certainly they are falling way short.

Is this going to be a way to introduce more privatisation?

While it won't affect the number of people on waiting lists, 'going private ' means that some can be treated much more quickly (by the same consultant etc) while others stay on the waiting list for even longer.

[Elite_Pie]

Not sure the Govt are doing nothing, but certainly they are falling way short.

This is what they are doing:

"The health service will receive an extra £3.3 billion in each of the next two years, while £4.7 billion will go into social care, Chancellor Jeremy Hunt announced in his autumn statement".

It sounds big numbers, but this is the reality:

"The annual increase for the next two years is 1.2% in real terms “which is below the average” seen in the decade preceding the pandemic (2%), as well as the historical average of around 3.8%"

It's peanuts, and it's allowing the situation to deteriorate. That's why thousands of NHS staff have had enough.

[magpie_mania]

This is what they are doing:

"The health service will receive an extra £3.3 billion in each of the next two years, while £4.7 billion will go into social care, Chancellor Jeremy Hunt announced in his autumn statement".

It sounds big numbers, but this is the reality:

"The annual increase for the next two years is 1.2% in real terms “which is below the average” seen in the decade preceding the pandemic (2%), as well as the historical average of around 3.8%"

It's peanuts, and it's allowing the situation to deteriorate. That's why thousands of NHS staff have had enough.

Do you have an opinion on consultants etc working privately?

A friend of mine had been waiting for months for an important operation. Her daughter then needed the same operation - she could get it privately and so it was done within a month - by the same consultant.

[Elite_Pie]

Do you have an opinion on consultants etc working privately?

As long as they fulfil their NHS duties I suppose it's up to them.

[OP67]

This is what they are doing:

"The health service will receive an extra £3.3 billion in each of the next two years, while £4.7 billion will go into social care, Chancellor Jeremy Hunt announced in his autumn statement".

It sounds big numbers, but this is the reality:

"The annual increase for the next two years is 1.2% in real terms “which is below the average” seen in the decade preceding the pandemic (2%), as well as the historical average of around 3.8%"

It's peanuts, and it's allowing the situation to deteriorate. That's why thousands of NHS staff have had enough.

So what do you think should be done about it??? Pretty much shows that throwing endless cash at it isn't going to sort it out. The NHS is no longer and hasn't been for a long long time been sustainable in it's current format.

Labour just use it for political points scoring while offering zero ideas!!

[GranthamPie]

So what do you think should be done about it??? Pretty much shows that throwing endless cash at it isn't going to sort it out. The NHS is no longer and hasn't been for a long long time been sustainable in it's current format.

Labour just use it for political points scoring while offering zero ideas!!

Utter garbage!

The NHS is on its knees because Governments (particularly Tory ones) have refused to separate funding for social care and healthcare. The Government (tax payer) isn’t throwing endless cash at the NHS…quite the opposite.

In postwar Britain, the average life expectancy was 60-70 years…it’s now 80-90 years. In postwar Britain, basic income tax was 27.5%, it’s now 20%. It was 91% for the Rich… it’s now 40%. Infant mortality is now a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of children who used to die from totally preventable illnesses and diseases in the 40s and 50s. Modern medicines and vaccines have transformed our lives!

The idea that this is a UK i.e. NHS problem is also utter bollox… the Germans and French spend far more on healthcare than we do. The UK spends about 12% GDP on healthcare… on par with most European nations.

My dad, before he died in October was in and it of hospital for years and in my first hand experience of the biggest issue facing the NHS, is the fact that our hospitals are full (to the brim) of elderly patients who cannot be sent home because there is no care in the community available… this is just a simple fact. It’s the single biggest drain on our healthcare system… it’s not a failure of the NHS…it’s a failure of Government to deal with it!

So… we’re living longer and pay far less tax (even less if you’re rich!) than we did when the NHS was founded?

The answer?…. Separate Social Care and Healthcare… fund both proportionately and fairly. And pay more tax!

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Utter garbage!

The NHS is on its knees because Governments (particularly Tory ones) have refused to separate funding for social care and healthcare. The Government (tax payer) isn’t throwing endless cash at the NHS…quite the opposite.

In postwar Britain, the average life expectancy was 60-70 years…it’s now 80-90 years. In postwar Britain, basic income tax was 27.5%, it’s now 20%. It was 91% for the Rich… it’s now 40%. Infant mortality is now a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of children who used to die from totally preventable illnesses and diseases in the 40s and 50s. Modern medicines and vaccines have transformed our lives!

The idea that this is a UK i.e. NHS problem is also utter bollox… the Germans and French spend far more on healthcare than we do. The UK spends about 12% GDP on healthcare… on par with most European nations.

My dad, before he died in October was in and it of hospital for years and in my first hand experience of the biggest issue facing the NHS, is the fact that our hospitals are full (to the brim) of elderly patients who cannot be sent home because there is no care in the community available… this is just a simple fact. It’s the single biggest drain on our healthcare system… it’s not a failure of the NHS…it’s a failure of Government to deal with it!

So… we’re living longer and pay far less tax (even less if you’re rich!) than we did when the NHS was founded?

The answer?…. Separate Social Care and Healthcare… fund both proportionately and fairly. And pay more tax!

well said !

[magpie_mania]

Utter garbage!

The NHS is on its knees because Governments (particularly Tory ones) have refused to separate funding for social care and healthcare. The Government (tax payer) isn’t throwing endless cash at the NHS…quite the opposite.

In postwar Britain, the average life expectancy was 60-70 years…it’s now 80-90 years. In postwar Britain, basic income tax was 27.5%, it’s now 20%. It was 91% for the Rich… it’s now 40%. Infant mortality is now a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of children who used to die from totally preventable illnesses and diseases in the 40s and 50s. Modern medicines and vaccines have transformed our lives!

The idea that this is a UK i.e. NHS problem is also utter bollox… the Germans and French spend far more on healthcare than we do. The UK spends about 12% GDP on healthcare… on par with most European nations.

My dad, before he died in October was in and it of hospital for years and in my first hand experience of the biggest issue facing the NHS, is the fact that our hospitals are full (to the brim) of elderly patients who cannot be sent home because there is no care in the community available… this is just a simple fact. It’s the single biggest drain on our healthcare system… it’s not a failure of the NHS…it’s a failure of Government to deal with it!

So… we’re living longer and pay far less tax (even less if you’re rich!) than we did when the NHS was founded?

The answer?…. Separate Social Care and Healthcare… fund both proportionately and fairly. And pay more tax!

There is another factor which needs to be taken into account - the huge amount which must be being spent (rightly) on technology - MRI scanners, much more advanced X-ray equipment, expensive medication etc. Just look at the equipment carried in ambulances and trained paramedics etc. At one time an ambulance was really a van!

[calmpie]

Facts are important. Yes Germany and Frances spend a little more as a % of GDP than us. Top of the pile of biggest spenders is the USA - but you would never hear that would you????

We are 4th biggest spenders on healthcare as a % of our GDP in the developed world. Yes, you can certainly argue that Social Care is underfunded but not that the NHS is underfunded.

[Elite_Pie]

Facts are important. Yes Germany and Frances spend a little more as a % of GDP than us. Top of the pile of biggest spenders is the USA - but you would never hear that would you????

We are 4th biggest spenders on healthcare as a % of our GDP in the developed world. Yes, you can certainly argue that Social Care is underfunded but not that the NHS is underfunded.

So if NHS funding is adequate, why is it so understaffed and in such a mess?