Careless Tories!

[Andy_Faber]

Its either an analogy or anecdote, please make your mind up! You are being a tad pedantic here, which is kind of par for the course, rather than addressing the main point, which is that your comment about remainers being poor losers wasn't an accurate description.

Apologies you are correct it wasn’t a poor anecdote it was a poor analogy. And the above wasn’t what I said. And of the declared Remainers here, 50% haven’t been poor losers so logically i wouldn’t consider saying it.

[swaledale]

Apologies you are correct it wasn’t a poor anecdote it was a poor analogy. And the above wasn’t what I said. And of the declared Remainers here, 50% haven’t been poor losers so logically i wouldn’t consider saying it.

Apology accepted. I don't accept its a poor analogy, given that analogy's are a literary device to emphasise a point which are often over dramatic for effect.

Your comment about poor losers, was in response to GP's about (Remainers) making the most noise are those who didn't get what they wanted. You may have thought you were referring to those on this Forum but that thats not how your comment reads in relation to the conversation that was going on which was specifically about the noise/ protests about Brexit generally.

Neither GP or yourself qualified that comment to rA and myself! Anyway have a good holiday and stay off the wacky backy!!

[MadAmster]

Gas. Here in NL we were self sufficient in Gas and still could be. That, however, comes at a price. The huge gas field is under the Province of Groningen. Decades of gas extraction has led to frequent earthquakes which has demolished some houses. Damaged some to the extent they are inhabitable and caused damage to very many dwellings.

You'd expect there to be some compensation paid. You'd be right to expect that too. The NAM, the company that extracted the gas and made themselves and their shareholders (incl the govt) many billions over the decades, decided they wanted no part of any compensation claims so they gave the govt the gas field. Now, 20 years after it was finally agreed that it was the gas extraction that was causing the earthquakes, very few people have received any compo at all. a few hundred whose homes have been declared uninhabitable have been given some compo. That was never at the pre earthquake value of their house but at around 70% of it. Unacceptable IMO.

The population of Groningen are suffering all sorts of mental health issues on the back of this and the earthquakes keep on coming. Last year, an amount of €10K was made available as a sort of "down payment" to affected house owners. On a particular day, the register opened, but you had to be at a particular office building and register in person. At "opening time" thousands were already in the queue. Mid afternoon, the very many still outside were told that the money made available was gone. Taken up by those who had signed up, up to that point.

We had also downgraded our gas reserves as Russian gas was plentiful and cheap. We all know how that ended.

Gas extraction in Groningen was supposed to stop last year in an attempt to reduce and, over time, stop the quakes occurring. We, like the UK, imported a shed load of liquid gas and "we're alright for now". Unfortunately for the good people of Groningen, gas is still being extracted and stored to, alongside more liquid gas imports, prevent another shortage causing more rocketing prices next winter.

Then there's the contract we have with Germany. It seems it contains a clause wherein, if the Germans are short on gas, they can demand, and get, gas from the Netherlands, even if that would leave NL short...

Although our govt is better than the UK one, mistakes are made. IIRC the contract stems from the time the NAM ran the show. The NL govt didn't get the offending clause taken out...

All of the above means that gas is still being extracted from the Groningen field despite them having been told it would stop in 2022. Extraction is, currently, low but could be ramped up again at a minute's notice.

I reckon, in 50 years time, they will still be awaiting compensation. It's not all honey and milk here but it is better than over there...

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sounds a complete buggers muddle and abuse of the residents impacted. Are you sure you didn't have a conservative government to blame it on, or maybe Netherlands left the EU without anyone knowing, and that's really to blame for ineffective energy resourcing.

So for those in favour of fracking, please learn from the lesson above. **** with mother nature and she'll **** you harder later on.

[swaledale]

Sounds a complete buggers muddle and abuse of the residents impacted. Are you sure you didn't have a conservative government to blame it on, or maybe Netherlands left the EU without anyone knowing, and that's really to blame for ineffective energy resourcing.

So for those in favour of fracking, please learn from the lesson above. **** with mother nature and she'll **** you harder later on.

I wasn't inferring that the Eu had energy sources sorted, Germany's over dependence upon Russian gas amply demonstrated that wasn't so. But the Eu has certainly dealt with the energy companies in a much firmer way, resulting in energy prices that are way below what is beign charged in the UK.

Totally agree re fracking, not actually worth it in the UK.

[ramAnag]

So for those in favour of fracking, please learn from the lesson above. **** with mother nature and she'll **** you harder later on.

Completely agree with that, GP. In fact I know of no one with any sense who wouldn’t, but seeing as there have been twenty one licences granted in Derbyshire alone since Truss lifted the restrictions, it is a concern.

[Geoff Parkstone]

The unfortunate thing is that the energy strategy is fractured across the world, and there is no joined up thinking across all nations on how to address a global problem. The first thing that needs addressing is reduced consumption/demand, and this first step is where the whole thing falls down as it ain't going to happen.

Alternative energy from solar, wind, hydro and tide won't, in my view, realistically fill the void as we necessarily move away from hydrocarbons. Fracking is simply not a viable option since it maintains that dependence on hydrocarbons.

The only real option, if we can't quell demand, seems to me to be a return to / acceleration of atomic power with the inherent risk of more Chernobyl's.

Nothing in life is risk free and I guess the risk of the odd nuclear meltdown is better than the risk of total destruction of the protection afforded by the atmosphere

[Ramshank72]

Sounds safe to me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVBW...=RonaldFrazier

[Andy_Faber]

As we are momentarily off Torybashing and onto a subject that actually matters, has anyone here done anything about energy self reliance?

[swaledale]

As we are momentarily off Torybashing and onto a subject that actually matters, has anyone here done anything about energy self reliance?

Not sure how reporting and commenting on the Tories self inflicted cock ups, dodgy tax affairs and general all round failings can be considered bashing!! I mean its hardly necessary to be critical, one just has to observe and report on the shambles they are making of government at the moment, they are self destructing spectaculary.

Plus we have Bridgen (recently described by a judge in court as a liar) now waffling on about Covid vaccine, which even if he had a point, he has zero credibility for stating facts. Raab under investigation for over 20 separate allegations of bullying, and Sunak basically telling complete lies every time he opens his mouth. Johnson a back bench MP is acting like Foreign Secretary, when he is not swanning around giving paid speeches and apparently Truss is planning a come back on the basis that she was "right" all along, just misunderstood!!