Marsching on Together

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I do see your point. I just have a totally different one. His go to football is awful. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks. Time will tell but it is already telling.

If VK was in charge last night, you would have seen a different style and set up. That is a fact. Just because they tried to string some passes together a few times doesn't mean the system/framework etc was set up to play that type of football. It just wasnt

But ok, let's draw a line under it again. The next time you see one of his teams play good, consistent style of football then bring this thread to the top and prove a point. I don't mean winning games, I mean a good style to watch that is not boring as.

I know now this thread will go to the abyss of the clarets mad forum and never again reach the surface.

Is there actually a right and wrong way to play football?

I'll bet any amount of money you want that if you ask an Everton fan right now, do you want S-e-x-y Football or the Championship next season?

I'm fairly confident I know what the answer will be.

[Untinted Glasses]

Is there actually a right and wrong way to play football?

I'll bet any amount of money you want that if you ask an Everton fan right now, do you want S-e-x-y Football or the Championship next season?

I'm fairly confident I know what the answer will be.

We have had this discussion. For me Yes there is. For you NO there isn't. Lets watch the thread sink now.

[Untinted Glasses]

Is there actually a right and wrong way to play football?

I'll bet any amount of money you want that if you ask an Everton fan right now, do you want S-e-x-y Football or the Championship next season?

I'm fairly confident I know what the answer will be.

I think you underestimate the Everton fans. Some Everton Fans Comments

I’ve watched that masterclass, I’ve watched the TiVo one, I’ve read articles and there is nothing from them that excites me in any way.

Had my fill of long ball football, low block football. I just can’t get up for it anymore.

Maybe if we did it in a way where we go long, squeeze the space and press high id be up for it but we won’t see that.

It will be drab as ****.


We’re not getting out of the situation we’re in by playing any kind of stylish football. If Dyche is here for 2.5 years and achieves even mid table mediocrity in that time given the state our board have left us in, I’ll think he's a miracle maker. Then if we’re still playing boring football, get rid and bring someone in with the kind of thinking Bielsa had. Now isn’t the time. Stabilise, sort the finances out, then move forward


I don’t want to see that football any more than you do


Just wanted to try get my head around what to expect. As much as he tried to offer more options in attack, it invariably kept coming back to hitting the striker early with the long ball.


Genuinely asking myself if I can get my head around supporting Brighton instead.


I hope he keeps us up but, unless he changes, I fear it's another two or more years lost before we have a chance to appoint a modern mamager.

[sinkov]

Swop the managers around, give Dyche Salah, Nunez and Gopka up front, give Klopp Simms and the rest of Everton's mediocre midfield and do you seriously think Everton under Klopp would have won by playing scintillating football, while Dyche's Liverpool simply lumped the ball up to their world class superstars ?

Would you like to answer the above UG, I'm really intrigued to know your opinion.

[Untinted Glasses]

Would you like to answer the above UG, I'm really intrigued to know your opinion.

Of course I used to say the same as you when he was here. Having now become totally unbiased my vision is clearer than ever. In answer to your question now I would say.

Klopps Everton team would be better to watch but may still not get the right results.

Dyches Liverpool would get the right results perhaps but would be still not good to watch

I think then recruitment comes into it. I think players losing belief and seeing through the "roll sleeves up, work harder" mentality.

Given 4 or 5 years you would see Everton overtake Liverpool in the league. The players would buy into his tactics more, new recruits of a better quality would be easier to attract. The dark clouds will blow over and a bright sun shall shine. A much better long term future for Everton whilst at Liverpool I would see it going the opposite way and Liverpool would sink to the lower depths of the premier league.

That is my honest thoughts. I get that you appreciate what he did here, and kudos. Just absolutely fantastic to get us to the premier league. Can't take that away from him. However I am just seeing it as I see it. No ulterior motive. I have nothing against him what so ever. I have just seen him for what he is.

Any how that is my answer mate.

[sinkov]

Of course I used to say the same as you when he was here. Having now become totally unbiased my vision is clearer than ever. In answer to your question now I would say.

Klopps Everton team would be better to watch but may still not get the right results.

Dyches Liverpool would get the right results perhaps but would be still not good to watch

I think then recruitment comes into it. I think players losing belief and seeing through the "roll sleeves up, work harder" mentality.

Given 4 or 5 years you would see Everton overtake Liverpool in the league. The players would buy into his tactics more, new recruits of a better quality would be easier to attract. The dark clouds will blow over and a bright sun shall shine. A much better long term future for Everton whilst at Liverpool I would see it going the opposite way and Liverpool would sink to the lower depths of the premier league.

That is my honest thoughts. I get that you appreciate what he did here, and kudos. Just absolutely fantastic to get us to the premier league. Can't take that away from him. However I am just seeing it as I see it. No ulterior motive. I have nothing against him what so ever. I have just seen him for what he is.

Any how that is my answer mate.

Cheers UG, I appreciate that. I think our main point of difference is that you believe Dyche has only one way of playing and cannot play any other way. I don't agree with that, and I've seen the evidence with my own eyes, entertaining, attacking football when winning two promotions from the Championship.

And much more recently, just three years ago 2019/20, we finished 10th, and what do you think the following clubs had in common, Sheffield United, Newcastle, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Aston Villa, Bournemouth, Watford and Norwich ? They all scored fewer goals than Sean Dyche's Burnley. And what did the following managers have in common, Roy Hodgson, Graham Potter, Eddie Howe, Chris Wilder, Dean Smith and Steve Bruce ? They all managed clubs who scored fewer goals than Sean Dyche's Burnley.

You say he can only get results by playing negative, crap football, so what on earth were those other teams and managers playing then ? You say he has a comfort zone, he reverts to type, but this is only three years ago, what type is he reverting to ? Admittedly the football has gone downhill since, but guess what else happened three years ago. The money to refresh the squad dried up. I don't think this is a co-incidence.

You say he can't play any other way than that dismal turgid stuff Everton served up last night. I'm just saying that the evidence, and quite recent evidence, shows that he can.

[Untinted Glasses]

Cheers UG, I appreciate that. I think our main point of difference is that you believe Dyche has only one way of playing and cannot play any other way. I don't agree with that, and I've seen the evidence with my own eyes, entertaining, attacking football when winning two promotions from the Championship.

And much more recently, just three years ago 2019/20, we finished 10th, and what do you think the following clubs had in common, Sheffield United, Newcastle, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Aston Villa, Bournemouth, Watford and Norwich ? They all scored fewer goals than Sean Dyche's Burnley. And what did the following managers have in common, Roy Hodgson, Graham Potter, Eddie Howe, Chris Wilder, Dean Smith and Steve Bruce ? They all managed clubs who scored fewer goals than Sean Dyche's Burnley.

You say he can only get results by playing negative, crap football, so what on earth were those other teams and managers playing then ? You say he has a comfort zone, he reverts to type, but this is only three years ago, what type is he reverting to ? Admittedly the football has gone downhill since, but guess what else happened three years ago. The money to refresh the squad dried up. I don't think this is a co-incidence.

You say he can't play any other way than that dismal turgid stuff Everton served up last night. I'm just saying that the evidence, and quite recent evidence, shows that he can.

Sinkov, I am not saying you are wrong. You may absolutely be right and I may be talking absolute b*****. However this is just what / how I feel. I will be the first to hold my hands up the first time he plays an attacking brand of football for a consistent length of time.

I think his goto style is a defensive 'framework'. I cannot see him changing, I don't think he has it in him. He could never get a team to play the way VK does. Absolutely never. I don't think he even wants that. I know now I will not see a Dyche team play this way. Not a chance.

Going to your point of his style with Burnley where you say he did play attacking football, I just feel those days are gone and he has been mentally effected/scarred. I could even say it took him some time to make the team less dynamic. He became obsessed with parking a bus and nicking a goal.

To reply to your list of managers, again I am not saying they had to score more goals or get more points. My whole point is the type of football that is played. I think all of them played better football than Dyche.

Like I say it will be interesting to see his journey. I would love you to be right. For what ever reason I just cannot see it though.

[sinkov]

No, his teams won't play like we do under VK, I agree, but what Vinni has done at Burnley is exceptional, I don't think many managers, if any, could do what VK has done, or would be brave enough to even attempt it, never mind Dyche. We'll have to wait and see whether his teams will ever play attractive football again, but we'll have to wait until he has a squad of players capable of it first, and he hasn't got that at Everton.

I suppose your ideal manager would be Bielsa, loved by the fans at Leeds, trying to keep them in the Pl with open, attacking football. Where is he now ? Any road UG, we can both agree on one thing, we won't be seeing any attacking flair football from Everton for the rest of this season. Good luck to Sean, I think he might have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire leaving Burnley for Goodison, he should have waited for a nice cushy Championship job to come up, stopped in his comfort zone.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Last time me and the youngest lad went to Southampton we had breakfast in the Wetherspoons nearest to the ground, it was a 12 noon kick-off so we went down on a Friday night and got the chat on with several Saints fans.

"We f*cking hate Burnley", "W f*ucking hate Dycheball" etc. etc.

Post-match it was, "f*ck me we never knew you lot could actually play football!"

We won the game 2-1 and Vydra sealed it with an absolute screamer.

I calculated that me and the lad saw Dyche's Burnley about 400 times home and away during his tenure and they were without doubt amongst the best footy experiences of my life.

What VK is currently accomplishing is off the chart, I'll write another piece when I've watched him after another 400 games in charge and see where we are then.

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[Untinted Glasses]

Last time me and the youngest lad went to Southampton we had breakfast in the Wetherspoons nearest to the ground, it was a 12 noon kick-off so we went down on a Friday night and got the chat on with several Saints fans.

"We f*cking hate Burnley", "W f*ucking hate Dycheball" etc. etc.

Post-match it was, "f*ck me we never knew you lot could actually play football!"

We won the game 2-1 and Vydra sealed it with an absolute screamer.

I calculated that me and the lad saw Dyche's Burnley about 400 times home and away during his tenure and they were without doubt amongst the best footy experiences of my life.

What VK is currently accomplishing is off the chart, I'll write another piece when I've watched him after another 400 games in charge and see where we are then.

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You're missing my point though BT by saying "in 400 games we will see where we are then". To me it doesn't matter. Division 2 playing good football will do for me. I am ok for seeing crap boring football. I think it was Steve Coterill in charge when I took my lad on to watch Burnley. Fair to say he didn't want to go and watch again. It's just crap.

The whole BUZZ around the place after the first 5 minutes against Huddersfield was enlightening.

Any how in 400 games, VK will not be here. Probably 120 games I would imagine, if that.