Small Boats etc solution

[Trickytreesreds]

Jeez, Tricky, please stop. You’re just producing one nonsensical rant after another.

1. I haven’t ever denied that I ‘introduced’ it...just that it wasn’t introduced in relation to a means of getting here. It was introduced in relation to what, imo, is the callous disregard shown by the likes of you, Braverman and Farage towards those unfortunate enough to be in the situation of refugees/asylum seekers. It was a comparison. I don’t know how else to explain it to you.

2. I’m glad you’ve got closer to understanding what ‘desperate’ means. To help you understand further, and as an example, ‘Forest launched one last desperate attack in a final effort to snatch a point’. Nothing whatsoever about ‘women/children/infirm’ is there?

3. You know exactly what Farage’s poster was meant to portray and what the hell did a picture of Syrian refugees have to do with Brexit anyway?

My ‘arguments are full of holes’. Talk about the kettle calling the pot!

Why are you waiting...I’ve said quite categorically that I’m not in favour of our borders being open to everyone.

I can only echo GP’s earlier comment. I’ve had more enjoyable root canal treatment.

Good morning
1.How the hell do you make that out? You introduced it as a comparison? That all migrants are inferior, or to use the correct term of your comaprison "sub human" You are the joke for even thinking along those lines, in fact a little disturbed.

2. Again "desperate" coming from France/ Italy/Greece etc along the way, waters down your claim massively. Again, the distinct lack of women /children/infirm/elderly completes the dilution.

3. Farages poster, what has it to do with Brexit?
Arrrh the classic, ignore why he said it.
Lets quote that. In 2015 the EU said "anyone making it to EU soil could stay". Ding ding and they did. From everywhere on top of Syrians. The genie was out the bottle. Once on that soil, the march to where they wanted began. greece was over whelmed, then the Balkans. Topped by Merkels rallying cry. Now those doors are closing. Germany/Sweden/Denmark/ France/ Italy are not so welcoming anymore, so the line has moved.
His poster like it or not, was his concerns about a flood of migration heading our way. At the time he was quoted as saying, that no one really knows who was hiding in that line of "refugees". ISIS said they would take the opportunity to move operatives into Europe.
Guess what happened next? Do you really need me to list the dead/ terror attacks/ violence rises here and in the EU?

No you said you are not in favour of open borders, but you seem to also be in favour of any attempt to control them.
TALK ABOUT FENCE SITTER.
I asked for your suggestions, you're a clever bloke, have a stab at it.

[Trickytreesreds]

Who is responsible for creating the backlog? This poor excuse for a government, that's who.

Now, back to one of my, thus far, unanswered questions. What form of words did Lineker use that show he's advocating open borders?

MA point one. I concur completely. But not just this one either. The ones before, fuelled and allowed it to grow in many ways.

Point 2 . Lineker has again, not for the first time had a jibe at the country for its borders. The Germany rhetoric is his latest attempt to undermine that. If open borders isn't what he wants, what is it? Because every time someone says they want to do something, him and the wokeratteri scream foul!

NB, you won't like this, lets look at at St Gary's second refugee for his wonderful experiance.
Lineker said he was still in touch with the law student, called Rasheed, who was introduced to him through the charity Refugees At Home.

The youngster from the mountainous Balochistan region between Pakistan and Iran stayed with Lineker for 20 days while studying law in the UK.

Definitely not one of the desperate people, he claims to speak for that don't fall into that marvellous mould.
Knife-obsessed' Afghan asylum seeker, 21, who said he was 14 to get into the UK before murdering aspiring Royal Marine is a double killer who gunned down two people in Serbia and was convicted of drug-dealing in Italy
Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai, 21, stabbed Thomas Roberts to death over e-scooter

So what does Gary propose, can him and RA please tell me?

[Trickytreesreds]

You also seem to have missed the posts where I, and others, have said the system/process needs a huge refit. Reopen the places abroad where people used to be able to claim asylum. Employ more people in the UK to handle the government caused backlog. Accept those that get accepted, deport those that don't.

All we are saying is get the system right. No open doors. Accept the ones who pass the asylum tests. Deport the rest.

After the system update, those rejected, who filed for asylum in the region or after entering Europe will, I'm certain, still try the small boat approach. Make sure they're safe, for no other reason than we are a kind, caring, humane and civilised bunch and deport them.

I'm really struggling to understand how you can have missed that exact message from quite a few of us. It's one I've posted on here several times. You don't have me on ignore, do you?

I would agree with most of those entirely, but it doesn't go far enough.
We have had examples, where convicted criminals migrants were being deported and certain politicians/ activists / lawyers get it stopped spouting "their" human rights.
Its why those coming by boats are not deported right away, or even after their claim has been binned. Even in Europe this is going on. They get rejected and instead of being removed hang around and decide themselves what to do/go next.
Its a farce.

So please list them, in an organised way. In fact, do a proper order that has credence and I'll send it to my MP, even though he is a tosser.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"Knife-obsessed' Afghan asylum seeker, 21, who said he was 14 to get into the UK before murdering aspiring Royal Marine is a double killer who gunned down two people in Serbia and was convicted of drug-dealing in Italy
Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai, 21, stabbed Thomas Roberts to death over e-scooter"

So this one person defines the entire corps of asylum seekers, does he? Oh ****, I'm in trouble, I originate from near where Fred West lived, so all us Gloucestershire folk should be jailed for life?

[MadAmster]

So please list them, in an organised way. In fact, do a proper order that has credence and I'll send it to my MP, even though he is a tosser.

List what?

[MadAmster]

"Knife-obsessed' Afghan asylum seeker, 21, who said he was 14 to get into the UK before murdering aspiring Royal Marine is a double killer who gunned down two people in Serbia and was convicted of drug-dealing in Italy
Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai, 21, stabbed Thomas Roberts to death over e-scooter"

So this one person defines the entire corps of asylum seekers, does he? Oh ****, I'm in trouble, I originate from near where Fred West lived, so all us Gloucestershire folk should be jailed for life?

You said it

[MadAmster]

I would agree with most of those entirely, but it doesn't go far enough.
We have had examples, where convicted criminals migrants were being deported and certain politicians/ activists / lawyers get it stopped spouting "their" human rights.
Its why those coming by boats are not deported right away, or even after their claim has been binned. Even in Europe this is going on. They get rejected and instead of being removed hang around and decide themselves what to do/go next.
Its a farce.

What would you propose we do with them? Leave them on the high seas to starve/drown/get run over by a ship? The British are, in the main, humane folk with compassion. We also tend to follow International law, or used to pre BoJo. We are well known for preaching to Russia/China/Israel etc for their breaches. This recent penchant for doing it ourselves will see us laughed at next time we point the finger. Credibility is being lost. If it wasn't for the fact that the word Great in GB stands for big, because it is larger than the region of France the settlers came from who renamed the area "Grand Bretagne", we would have been relabelled Little or Small Britain decades ago.

Forget politics etc for a moment. The current method of allowing people to apply for asylum, let them stay if their application is successful, and deporting them (actually doing it) if their claim fails is the RIGHT thing to do. The fact the system is about as far off what it should be as VAR is, is neither here nor there.

That means we have to come to agreements with other countries. Some of which we had until Boris decided not to renew them following Brexit.

Here in NL, we have, finally, come to an agreement with Morocco with regard to "unwanted" Moroccans. For decades they have refused to take them back. A few months back agreement was finally reached. Slowly but surely, they are being repatriated. It will probably take several HMGs decades to get back to where we should be on this. The UK appears to be stuck with unwanted refugees for some time to come.

[ramAnag]

I

Good morning
1.How the hell do you make that out? You introduced it as a comparison? That all migrants are inferior, or to use the correct term of your comaprison "sub human" You are the joke for even thinking along those lines, in fact a little disturbed.

2. Again "desperate" coming from France/ Italy/Greece etc along the way, waters down your claim massively. Again, the distinct lack of women /children/infirm/elderly completes the dilution.

3. Farages poster, what has it to do with Brexit?
Arrrh the classic, ignore why he said it.
Lets quote that. In 2015 the EU said "anyone making it to EU soil could stay". Ding ding and they did. From everywhere on top of Syrians. The genie was out the bottle. Once on that soil, the march to where they wanted began. greece was over whelmed, then the Balkans. Topped by Merkels rallying cry. Now those doors are closing. Germany/Sweden/Denmark/ France/ Italy are not so welcoming anymore, so the line has moved.
His poster like it or not, was his concerns about a flood of migration heading our way. At the time he was quoted as saying, that no one really knows who was hiding in that line of "refugees". ISIS said they would take the opportunity to move operatives into Europe.
Guess what happened next? Do you really need me to list the dead/ terror attacks/ violence rises here and in the EU?

No you said you are not in favour of open borders, but you seem to also be in favour of any attempt to control them.
TALK ABOUT FENCE SITTER.
I asked for your suggestions, you're a clever bloke, have a stab at it.

Okay...one final attempt.

1. I used the word ‘Untermensch’ to draw a comparison between the contempt shown within 1930’s Germany for certain minority groups (many of them migrants) and the similar contempt for similar groups shown in the UK today by certain Right wingers. Please explain how that is ‘disturbed’.

2. You said, in post 53, ‘desperate implies women/children/infirm’. It really, really doesn’t and no amount of arguing will make anyone change their minds about that. It’s nonsense. You cannot challenge what someone suggests by falsely changing the meaning of a word.

3. Farage’s ‘Breaking Point’ anti-migrant poster from 2016 was very reminiscent of propaganda from the 1930’s. Even fellow ‘Leavers’ Johnson and Gove distanced themselves from it, the latter commenting...‘it made me shudder’, while others described it as the ‘politics of the gutter’ and Justin Welby cited it as an example of Farage ‘giving legitimisation to racism’. It is, imo, an example of Farage identifying refugees as some sort of ‘Untermensch’. Please look it up and explain how it isn’t.

4. Despite what you appear to want to believe, neither I (nor Gary Lineker) have, at any time, advocated a policy of open borders. It suits your agenda to portray all those who are not as callous as yourself as supporting such a stance but, as with so much of what you suggest, it isn’t true. It has no basis in fact...and simply being willing to show compassion towards those who are so desperate to escape to the comparative safety of the U.K. is a very different thing.

Now...if you’re going to respond please respond rationally. I don’t know about being a ‘clever bloke’...no more or less than most on here I’d suggest...but I am bright enough to know that you don’t win debates by making nonsensical statements and deliberately misinterpreting others.

[Trickytreesreds]

"Knife-obsessed' Afghan asylum seeker, 21, who said he was 14 to get into the UK before murdering aspiring Royal Marine is a double killer who gunned down two people in Serbia and was convicted of drug-dealing in Italy
Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai, 21, stabbed Thomas Roberts to death over e-scooter"

So this one person defines the entire corps of asylum seekers, does he? Oh ****, I'm in trouble, I originate from near where Fred West lived, so all us Gloucestershire folk should be jailed for life?

GP, the pont is, a lot of those coming in, have tossed their ID's away and we have no way of clarifying their back grounds. He isn't the only one and you know it.
I'm sure those 3 gay picnickers in Reading are ecstatic out assessment system works so well.

[Trickytreesreds]

What would you propose we do with them? Leave them on the high seas to starve/drown/get run over by a ship? The British are, in the main, humane folk with compassion. We also tend to follow International law, or used to pre BoJo. We are well known for preaching to Russia/China/Israel etc for their breaches. This recent penchant for doing it ourselves will see us laughed at next time we point the finger. Credibility is being lost. If it wasn't for the fact that the word Great in GB stands for big, because it is larger than the region of France the settlers came from who renamed the area "Grand Bretagne", we would have been relabelled Little or Small Britain decades ago.

Forget politics etc for a moment. The current method of allowing people to apply for asylum, let them stay if their application is successful, and deporting them (actually doing it) if their claim fails is the RIGHT thing to do. The fact the system is about as far off what it should be as VAR is, is neither here nor there.

That means we have to come to agreements with other countries. Some of which we had until Boris decided not to renew them following Brexit.

Here in NL, we have, finally, come to an agreement with Morocco with regard to "unwanted" Moroccans. For decades they have refused to take them back. A few months back agreement was finally reached. Slowly but surely, they are being repatriated. It will probably take several HMGs decades to get back to where we should be on this. The UK appears to be stuck with unwanted refugees for some time to come.

MA, as I said, we need to break the chain, fast.
As long as the market exists, the criminals will exploit it.
We currently pay many millions to France, to stop these launches on their beaches. Now they are never going to catch them all. Any picked up at sea, should be returned right back to France. Its the same thing.

The right to asylum as you call it, is full of charlatans, so for me their aps should be done abroad. They were not in any danger in Greece/Italy/France/Germany.
Granted we don't help ourselves either, because "we" are too literal with the law.
Explain to me how Germany/Sweden can refuse to process any Albanian, but we have to? Breaking Internation law perhaps?
Poland/Hungary/ Greece have all done it as well? Why are you saying jolly old Britian shouldn't?
Ever considered the laws are inadequate/out of date?

We all agree the system is broken. It doesn't work. It fails us and fails the real refugees themselves.
All I see, is excuses as to why we shouldn't take action to protect the borders. Never a reason as to why we should be doing so.

Rawanda scheme has received nothing but scorn , yet even that Bastian of migrants Germany is considering using it now?

Folks are sick of excuses, they want to see something done.