O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[Magpies1959]

The truth coming out about covid now is what people like me got absolutely ridiculed for at the time. This is because politicians the world over, and saw covid as a way to enforce their power, to levels they could only have dreamed of. They now have a perfect excuse to squeeze the pips, with most people happy to go along with their narrative about it all being down to the effects of the virus.

[upthemaggies]

The truth coming out about covid now is what people like me got absolutely ridiculed for at the time. This is because politicians the world over, and saw covid as a way to enforce their power, to levels they could only have dreamed of. They now have a perfect excuse to squeeze the pips, with most people happy to go along with their narrative about it all being down to the effects of the virus.

Tell me about it!

Total silence now too from the media on the alarming excess death levels across the past 2 years in developed countries (not being caused by respiratory illness, but inflammation issues for the most part) that show no sign of going down.

[countygump]

Tell me about it!

Total silence now too from the media on the alarming excess death levels across the past 2 years in developed countries (not being caused by respiratory illness, but inflammation issues for the most part) that show no sign of going down.

Yeah, that is worrying and could really do with some investigation/research funded and carried out by the major pharmaceutical companies. But they won't do that, as not only is it not profitable, who knows what answers it might reveal?

[maddogslater]

Oh how I wish I could triple un vaccinate myself.
100 percent effective? Why because ONE person in the 11,000 trial group who got the vaccine died and TWO people in the 11,000 placebo group died. 100 percent effective!!

[JoePass]

Oh how I wish I could triple un vaccinate myself.
100 percent effective? Why because ONE person in the 11,000 trial group who got the vaccine died and TWO people in the 11,000 placebo group died. 100 percent effective!!

Can’t argue with that.

[upthemaggies]

Oh how I wish I could triple un vaccinate myself.
100 percent effective? Why because ONE person in the 11,000 trial group who got the vaccine died and TWO people in the 11,000 placebo group died. 100 percent effective!!

Died of (or maybe with) Covid, they didn't mention the 4/5 people in the vaccinated group that died of a heart attack. Based on that trial (which was cut short) and their own interpretation method, the vaccine was 400% or more likely to kill you of a heart problem than if you were unvaxxed.

[maddogslater]

He mentions that in the discussion UTMs, here's the link for the Rogan pod with Robert Kennedy Jr
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3DQ...SkSRRFUYi1g1Hw

[BigFatPie]

Difficult to disagree.

The obvious conclusion to take from videos such as the one above is that those involved, and their political leaders, did not privately believe that the severity of the lockdown was as necessary as they publicly said it was, as demonstrated by their own actions. So why did they advocate such policies?

A lot of politicians these days are getting themselves into strife by saying words and advocating policies recommended to them by experts/think tanks/focus groups rather than saying what they actually believe in their heart (if they even know what a heartfelt belief is!), and that's why they get caught out when their private actions inevitably don't match their public statements.

What's the point of going into politics if you're not actually going to say and stand by what you believe?

It's a rhetorical question. The answer is that we have a raft of people who now think the main point of politics is not to change/shape the world to the way they believe it should be, but rather, to provide them with a lucrative career. I can't imagine the likes of (e.g.) Margaret Thatcher or Tony Benn routinely advocating policies that they didn't believe in their heart, but these days we've got a situation where unelected officials can very easily manipulate the public's elected representatives to parrot whatever they recommend.

In Civil Service parlance, a lot of modern politicians seem to be very easily "professionally guided" and are no doubt considered "a joy to work with", while the few remaining awkward sods who actually have some core beliefs and refuse to compromise are "bullies".

To be clear, you think politicians should form policy on issues like Covid or climate change based on what they personally believe rather than what a majority of experts in the field are telling them?

[jackal2]

To be clear, you think politicians should form policy on issues like Covid or climate change based on what they personally believe rather than what a majority of experts in the field are telling them?

I think on any subject you need to have discussion and debate, which provides a choice for the public to make. Otherwise you don't have a democracy. You're just leaving the decisions to a bunch of unelected, self-appointed 'experts' and keeping the public out of decision-making, which might be regarded as good politics in North Korea but I wouldn't recommend it here.

A lot of the time, the public will eventually side with the view of the 'majority of experts', but that doesn't mean there isn't in value in having a thorough and ongoing debate, with all views articulated by publicly elected representatives interpreting the evidence as they see it, where the public has a choice and can even change its mind if new evidence comes to light or they lose confidence in the 'expert' view.

There have been many occasions in history when the "majority of experts" in a field have proven over time to be wrong, or where the evidence on reflection proved to be far more nuanced then first thought. And that's not to mention the fact that the very definition of who is an 'expert' is subjective anyway - the question of who you count in or out of your pool of experts, and who makes that decision, may well define what the 'majority view' ends up being.

[Magpies1959]

Well the experts were massively wrong about covid, so who knows what else they could be wrong about. It is impossible to believe anyone about anything in this world anymore, sadly, yes even 'the experts'. Unless you can prove something yourself, I suggest taking all that you hear with a pinch of salt. Some of it will be true of course, but that will be things where money and politics are not involved.