O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[maddogslater]

I still wear a mask, when I go shopping etc. I'm regularly wash my hands and even use wipes in between the times I'm able to do that. I've had Covid twice in the last 9 months.

I'd have to say though that I've had Common Colds that had much worse symptoms. All I experienced was a bit of a scratchy throat, bit of coughing, bit of achiness, symptoms gone after a few days though.

Don't forget to sing happy birthday while washing your hands 😃

[Magpies1959]

EP once and for all I give zero f*cks about Boris Johnson, along with any other politician.

[Jampie]

I am one of those considered extremely vulnerable, and had the first three vaccine shots, before reading more about it and decided to take my chances. I have never had covid as far as I am aware (7 negative hospital tests), could have had it asymptomatically I guess. I was also very blase about masks and the two metre rule.
It was interesting to note that absolutely nothing was mentioned on the msm about T cells, leaving joe public to believe everyone was at danger of catching the deadly virus. Maybe they could have tested everyone to see who had T cells, thus allowing them to go about their daily business.

Everyone has T cells. Anyone without T cells would have died of some random disease a long time ago.

[Jampie]

You've reframed the argument.
You were making out vaccines prevented hospitalisation and death, now you're saying they were "far lower". The ICU stats were showing percentage of vaccinated were increasing and unvaccinated going down, then they stopped publishing as people began pointing that out.
Why would they push boosters if this were not the case?

Well, three things were happening there.

Firstly, the proportion of the population in England who have neither been vaccinated nor had the virus and acquired natural immunity, is now nearly zero.

That proportion was dropping throughout the pandemic from 100% to near 0% as it is now.

The overwhelming majority of the population is now vaccinated (whether they've had the virus or not), and as such vaccinated people were naturally representing a larger and larger proportion of those being hospitalised.

It's important to note that all of the stats always indicated that vaccinated people were still hospitalised at a lower rate per population than unvaccinated. For e.g. if 95% of your population is vaccinated, and 80% of hospitalised are vaccinated, it's important to realise that 5% of the population (unvaccinated) are 4x more likely per person to be hospitalised.

UK's stats continually showed this, but anti vaxxers continually glossed over it, increasingly pouncing on the first number only and dishonestly presenting this as evidence that the vaccines didn't work.

The second thing going on is that due to our singularly brilliant plan of allowing the virus to propagate out of control throughout the western world until it reached the third world, thereby having billions of bodies in which to mutate freely for months and now years on end, the virus has mutated. Massively.

The first vaccines, and indeed all vaccines available for the first several years, were _solely_ based on the original Wuhan strain of the virus.

The newer strains, Delta through Omicron and its descendants (today's unwanted guests) evolved quite directly and literally to evade the immune systems of people who were immune to the Wuhan strain, regardless of how that immunity was acquired (vaccine or getting the virus early).

By now, though, vaccines against the Wuhan strain are of very limited use, as is natural immunity aquired from the earlier strains. As such, updated vaccines are needed (in short) and a lot of us will want years updated boosters just like Influenza.

Thirdly, immune responses wane over time, and we're seeing that happen too.

As I said, unvaxxed were disproportionately from poor backgrounds and poor health. Average age maybe suggests they'd avoided care homes and being put on the ventilators in the first wave, then eventually caught it as it spread through communities.
No argument vax stimulated an immune response but it waned after three weeks and then you had no protection within around 3 months. Hence vaxxed then getting ill and need for boosters with talk of giving them indefinitely. 3 or 4 every year, which caused a lot more people to become suspicious and ask questions.

An experiment is trial and error. You wait to see what happens before declaring it safe, not before. This vax was given the green light on the basis there was a global emergency and that there was no other treatment whatsoever available. On one side you've got a diversity of ideas as to what can be done to treat people, the other insisting there can only be one single solution with anybody who suggests otherwise censored and smeared.

As I said, I don't think there is any plan to give updated vaccines more than once or twice per year. As the virus continues to mutate, I suspect we'll settle into one shot every year like Influenza.

But, I should stress I think people should get vaccine advice from their doctor, not the internet, as there is a vast array of dangerous complete nonsense being spread about vaccines on the internet.

[magpie_mania]

You're having a laugh, it reached the point where the stats (You could download straightforward Unvaxxed v vaxxed numbers of patients on ICU per month for individual hospitals) became inconvenient after they had promised the vax prevented hospitalisation and death. It didn't. They lied every step of the way (prevents infection, prevents spread, prevents severe illness, long term protection) and then hid the evidence.

Let's be clear about this, the average age of Covid death (with or of) was higher than life expectancy or thereabouts. The largest numbers of unvaxxed were in the deprived areas with the poorest health/diets and it was always the case from day 1 that the vast vast majority showed little or even no symptoms.

The jab didn't grant anybody eternal life or magically give them an extra 10 years as a bonus prize for being a compliant citizen, people who were jabbed still die. All cause mortality numbers - including excess - include vaccinated people.

Unvaxxed were not testing regularly, signing up for the NHS apps, NHS Covid surveys (I got one and binned it), track and trace or going to the doctor and presenting their symptoms for advice, there was no way of knowing how often or how ill unjabbed were apart the tiny fraction who became ill enough to require hospital treatment. Yet it reached the point of farce where young fit and healthy jabbed were wiped out with Covid telling the world "Thank goodness I got vaccinated or it would have been so much worse." when typically the fit and well pre-vax had been breezing through it. So if it were the case that the increase in heart issues is purely as a result of having Covid, the vaxxed won't be able to avoid it. Excess deaths in young and working age people as a result of heart conditions implies far greater numbers will have been damaged with the long term issues still to reveal themselves.

Simple maths shows that as more are vaccinated, it is quite possible that there are more in ITU who are vaccinated than not.

Take 1000 people.

95% are vaccinated = 950
5% aren't = 50

Of the vaccinated, 5% go into ICU = 48
Of the unvaccinated, 50% go into ICU = 25

You would say that there are more in ICU who are vaccinated which shows it doesn't work
I would say that you are 10 times more likely to go into ICU when unvaccinated than vaccinated.

Obviously not actual figures but you get the gist of it.

I've had 3 and quite happy. I will have the booster in the autumn.

[upthemaggies]

I believe everything the ministry of truth tells me

.

They've really done a number on you haven't they. You have form for parroting everything the MSM tells you on the Ukraine thread, which is not to say I agree with Andy but you'd be an idiot to believe only one side tells the truth and that the west doesn't resort to propaganda and that there is no corruption and self interest involved.

We're talking about captured institutions via funding and personnel on boards resulting in the pharma industry marking it's own homework and you swallow this BS.

The vaccine doesn't prevent spread so it would evolve to evade the vaccines if they actually did anything more than stimulate a short term immune response before giving zero protection within 3 months, so you're endlessly playing catchup many months behind the mutations.

Flu jabs are a totally different thing, you try to predict what the dominant strain will be based on what's happening in other parts of the world going through winter season and then give them out before the pandemic takes hold, not 6 months after the event. I've volunteered to have flu jabs in the past but never again, knowing what I know now.

[upthemaggies]

Obviously not actual figures but you get the gist of it.

.

You'd need to make up whether or not these imaginary people were on ICU because of Covid, or if they were there WITH covid and if they had other serious illnesses. Make up their ages and also decide whether or not those who haven't had their latest booster in time count as unvexed. Just to flesh it out with some imaginary context. If you could do that and show some talent for bending the truth a little, then you might get a job working on one of the studies that gets presented as evidence.

[BanjoPie]

You'd need to make up whether or not these imaginary people were on ICU because of Covid, or if they were there WITH covid and if they had other serious illnesses. Make up their ages and also decide whether or not those who haven't had their latest booster in time count as unvexed. Just to flesh it out with some imaginary context. If you could do that and show some talent for bending the truth a little, then you might get a job working on one of the studies that gets presented as evidence.

You need to provide some evidence to back up your bullsh*t - Oh, you can’t can you!

[i961pie]

It's a conspiracy I tell yer😜

[upthemaggies]

You need to provide some evidence to back up your bullsh*t - Oh, you can’t can you!

You'd need to be smart enough to see the bigger picture.

Why do you think they had to force NHS staff to take the jab with the threat of the sack if they didn't. They could see what was happening first hand.

The whistle blowers revealed all sorts of shenanigans were going on behind the scenes with massaging the stats to suit the narrative. Whether or not you believe them depends on whether or not you believe government approved sources or what's been unfolding in front of your own eyes.

I wouldn't want to convince everyone, I'm quite happy for some people to keep on getting jabbed, we just needed enough people to stop complying to upend the tyranny. The tide turned and that's what happened, though whether enough people have learned the lesson to prevent something like this happening again remains to be seen.