O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[BanjoPie]

You'd need to be smart enough to see the bigger picture.

Why do you think they had to force NHS staff to take the jab with the threat of the sack if they didn't. They could see what was happening first hand.

The whistle blowers revealed all sorts of shenanigans were going on behind the scenes with massaging the stats to suit the narrative. Whether or not you believe them depends on whether or not you believe government approved sources or what's been unfolding in front of your own eyes.

I wouldn't want to convince everyone, I'm quite happy for some people to keep on getting jabbed, we just needed enough people to stop complying to upend the tyranny. The tide turned and that's what happened, though whether enough people have learned the lesson to prevent something like this happening again remains to be seen.

Sorry UTM but unless you supply some type of evidence then all you say is just opinions , hearsay or fake-news stories. As I said, provide the evidence and I will genuinely read it and if convinced, I will join the ban wagon.

[upthemaggies]

Sorry UTM but unless you supply some type of evidence then all you say is just opinions , hearsay or fake-news stories. As I said, provide the evidence and I will genuinely read it and if convinced, I will join the ban wagon.

What do you want me to do? Perform a live autopsy on a zoom chat?

We all know how it works, stats and graphs that back up your claim are evidence, stats and graphs that don't can be dismissed with the quote ""Lies, damned lies, and statistics", Trading stats, graphs and links back and forth also just gets boring and tedious for everybody else, see Andy v Jampie on the Ukraine thread. Anything that isn't BBC/Guardian is dismissed as Right Wing and if it's not right wing MSM then it's dismissed as "just somebody on the internet, you must be a flat earther too, ha ha ha".
Above all it requires me going back and doing the work and finding the material and interviews I did a year ago when the battle has now been won.

Mostly my opinion is based on trusting the advice of an elderly relative I've only got to know properly in recent years who spent his life working as a psychiatrist who therefore knows a thing or two as to how pharma operates and he was quite dismayed how many of the family buckled once vax passports came in.

I did wonder in the middle of it all, who - if we're all still here in decade's time - would be the last person on here to defend pharma and the WHO etc as it all begins to unravel and the truth finally begins to come out. After your last post I can probably rule you out, it's probably going to be Jampie or the WEF chap.

[BanjoPie]

What do you want me to do? Perform a live autopsy on a zoom chat?

We all know how it works, stats and graphs that back up your claim are evidence, stats and graphs that don't can be dismissed with the quote ""Lies, damned lies, and statistics", Trading stats, graphs and links back and forth also just gets boring and tedious for everybody else, see Andy v Jampie on the Ukraine thread. Anything that isn't BBC/Guardian is dismissed as Right Wing and if it's not right wing MSM then it's dismissed as "just somebody on the internet, you must be a flat earther too, ha ha ha".
Above all it requires me going back and doing the work and finding the material and interviews I did a year ago when the battle has now been won.

Mostly my opinion is based on trusting the advice of an elderly relative I've only got to know properly in recent years who spent his life working as a psychiatrist who therefore knows a thing or two as to how pharma operates and he was quite dismayed how many of the family buckled once vax passports came in.

I did wonder in the middle of it all, who - if we're all still here in decade's time - would be the last person on here to defend pharma and the WHO etc as it all begins to unravel and the truth finally begins to come out. After your last post I can probably rule you out, it's probably going to be Jampie or the WEF chap.

Sorry again UTM but if I said ‘there is intelligent life on Mars” - would you believe me?. Perhaps we should just stick to posts on football (Notts in particular) to avoid any arguments. I respect your right to have your opinions but I will pass on them if thats ok with you. COYP’s

[Jampie]

I did wonder in the middle of it all, who - if we're all still here in decade's time - would be the last person on here to defend pharma and the WHO etc as it all begins to unravel and the truth finally begins to come out. After your last post I can probably rule you out, it's probably going to be Jampie or the WEF chap.

If large numbers of people start dropping dead due to vaccines I will say "this new data proves I was wrong", and probably drop dead.

The odds of this happening are essentially zero. There have now been many, many billions of doses given and a tiny handful of deaths. In Australia AZ was withdrawn from being given to young people because it killed a few, and there were cautions for young men particularly about the mRNA ones because we had a few cases of heart inflammation from it.

Meanwhile, Covid killed has 21,000 Australians and counting. In per capita terms, the UK has had more than four times that number, because more of the UK population was exposed to the virus prior to vaccines. And yes, that was due to Boris's idiotic early policies.

In other words, on those numbers Vaccines have saved the lives of at least 60,000 more Australians than people in the UK, because we just weren't exposed to the virus much before vaccines.

The reality is that over and above an entirely Covid-19 naive population, we've saved more like 110,000 lives with vaccines. We had (I rechecked) 14 vaccine related deaths. Those are the real numbers. These are the facts. If the facts where different I would form a very different opinion based on them.

[upthemaggies]

If large numbers of people start dropping dead due to vaccines I will say "this new data proves I was wrong", and probably drop dead.

The odds of this happening are essentially zero. There have now been many, many billions of doses given and a tiny handful of deaths. In Australia AZ was withdrawn from being given to young people because it killed a few, and there were cautions for young men particularly about the mRNA ones because we had a few cases of heart inflammation from it.

Meanwhile, Covid killed has 21,000 Australians and counting. In per capita terms, the UK has had more than four times that number, because more of the UK population was exposed to the virus prior to vaccines. And yes, that was due to Boris's idiotic early policies.

In other words, on those numbers Vaccines have saved the lives of at least 60,000 more Australians than people in the UK, because we just weren't exposed to the virus much before vaccines.

The reality is that over and above an entirely Covid-19 naive population, we've saved more like 110,000 lives with vaccines. We had (I rechecked) 14 vaccine related deaths. Those are the real numbers. These are the facts. If the facts where different I would form a very different opinion based on them.

And what about Africa, people were predicting absolute catastrophe there, the least vaccinated continent and they breezed through it compared to the rest of the world. Yes there is context that goes with that, but the same applies to everything and people leave out the stuff that's inconvenient and highlight the stuff that is. Australia is a smaller population than the UK and out of the way, it isn't the hub of activity with the migration Europe has, it's presumably a lot healthier too. There are obvious reasons why it was easier to lockdown there and keep the virus out.

The vaccines have been withdrawn here now for all but the most vulnerable, which is a joke because the numbers still rolling up their sleeves had fallen off a cliff. Many people stopped at two saying "no more, that's me done", more stopped at 3. Unlike you, buried in the paper work, they could see what was happening around them. You will ultimately be proved wrong, I've no doubt about it, the tide turned against this insanity a long time ago but Australia is some way behind for obvious reasons.

[OchPie]

And what about Africa, people were predicting absolute catastrophe there, the least vaccinated continent and they breezed through it compared to the rest of the world.

You're entirely wrong. The roll-out of vaccines especially in the most populated areas helped a lot (though I would say that, I guess, since that was literally my job) - but Covid still had a massive impact in Africa. The statistics didn't keep up, but talking to my doctor friends in East and West Africa painted an appalling picture at times.

Nobody is saying everything was perfect. Everything was done in a rush. EUAs were necessary to get jabs into arms - though Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines now have full FDA approval.

And all evidence suggests that adverse events from the vaccines are still less frequent and less damaging than those from being infected by Covid. I was lucky enough not to lose anyone close to Covid but with relatives suffering from Long Covid, I really don't buy the story of a mild disease that you're selling.

[upthemaggies]

You're entirely wrong. .

Covid catastrophe in Africa would have been a massive news story if such a thing occurred. We'd all know about it.
You can google Africa and Covid and can see all sorts of explanations as to why they suffered less. Had to laugh at this one... National Library of Medicine: "Why are COVID-19 effects less severe in Sub-Saharan Africa? Moving more and sitting less may be a primary reason" If only we'd been told not to sit down.

Forgot to mention them asking for and being granted indemnity. Which should have told people all they needed to know. They knew the risk and that they couldn't say it was safe because it wasn't and isn't.
Because of how the rules and regulations were set up, they were pushing to get kids (who were at no risk) vaccinated because once they'd got them jabbed they wouldn't have to prove safety once the emergency period ran out to get approval. That's the level of evil we're dealing with here. They couldn't care less about health, only profit.

Nobody is now denying there is a link with the jab and heart issues (which are now accounting for significant excess deaths), so if long Covid is causing issues with that as well then everybody jabbed adds to the risk because the jab doesn't stop you getting Covid.