O/T:- Banks

[jackal2]

I genuinely want to know how Brexit has benefited us. You didn't tell me. I know there are many for and against arguments on the internet, but you can say that for almost any subject. All you've said is that "it will take a long time". I don't recall that being in the leave manifesto.

Apologies for the delayed reply, Elite, I'm only here sporadically at present!

You're right that the internet carries varied opinion on any subject, but I referred you to the wide range of opinion on how Brexit has benefited us or will benefit us rather than arrogantly assuming that you were specifically/just interested in my own specific take. My view is actually incredibly straight-forward and has little to do with immigration, economic advantages or disadvantages, public funding or who lied about what.

The reason I consider that Britain benefits from Brexit is because I just fundamentally don't accept that we are 'European' and so I believe we should never have joined its political framework, frankly regardless of the supposed 'advantages' or 'disadvantages' people might argue this offers us at any given point in time. Therefore, I believe our identity as a nation benefits from now being "not" part of the European Union. It's as fundamental as that.

Others may disagree either with my choice to vote for Brexit, or my particular reason for doing so, but that's why I referred to the whole range of opinion out there. I can't really speak for anyone else and it's not my job to judge the validity or otherwise of their views, but I recognise there a many!

I think the 3 main pledges that clinched the vote were these:

1. Let's take control of our borders and stop illegal immigrants.
2. Why should we send millions to the EU when we could give it the NHS?
3. Let's rid ourselves of EU shackles and strike a load of great new trade deals which will leave us all much better off.

All very appealing, but how many have happened? None of them. Not one. None even close.

I suppose my view comes closest to the first part of reason three (i.e. Let's rid ourselves of the EU shackles), but with regard to the other reasons you raise, and several more besides, I agree with you that Britain has not yet 'exploited' (if that's the word) Brexit to anything like it's fullest potential. For that I blame a partially inept and forever shape-shifting Government and, as referenced earlier, anti-Brexit forces (some of whom are inside said Government!) who were always going to do their everything within their very considerable power to prevent the benefits of Brexit from being delivered quickly or fully. That doesn't surprise me. Anyone who voted for Brexit should have known that these dark forces would not suddenly admit defeat, pack up and go home. Winning a Brexit vote was only ever going to be a step in a particular direction.

That does not however mean the Brexit decision was "wrong" or has "failed". From my viewpoint, anything that (at least significantly) removed us from the tanglehairs of the EU represents an automatic and immediate benefit, even if not a full or complete one to date. If there was another Brexit vote in the future - and for precisely the reasons stated above I wouldn't be at all surprised - then I'd vote exactly the same way for exactly the same personal reason and hope many others would too.

[Elite_Pie]

Apologies for the delayed reply, Elite, I'm only here sporadically at present!

The way this bloody site is running, I think that goes for all of us!

The reason I consider that Britain benefits from Brexit is because I just fundamentally don't accept that we are 'European'.

That's probably where we differ. I like to think I can be British and European at the same time. But where I think we can still retain a national identity, you seem to think (correct me if I'm wrong) that we are being forced into being part of a homogenised Europe. If that was the case, I would be against it. But where do you draw the line? In my vision the French would still be free to cycle in a hooped shirt with a string of onions around their neck, the Germans would still be free to put their towels on sunbeds first, and we would still be free to put on our bells and stockings and go Morris dancing on the village green. We would be different but still friends.

I would add that when I first went abroad I was proud to say I was British. I still am based on the old values, but not on what we have become. I know I did stereotypes before, but if there is a stereotype for distasteful behaviour abroad it belongs to the Brits. This is entirely from personal experience, but the vast majority of times I've seen trouble on holiday, it involves the British.