Matchday Thread: Bolton v Derby

[swaledale]

I know I'm not Swale but I like to have my say, continuing to speak from the 'disappointed' POV

I'm one of those boring 'build from the back' fellahs and based on performances so far, Wildsmith/Smith/Cashin/Forsyth/AN Other would be my defence, weak link being left back because we have no-one who is a patch on last year's incumbent Roberts. I doubt PW will revert to that selection purely out of pride, he's brought in a number of so-so defenders and may, even subconsciously, feel that he needs to justify their recruitment. I hope not, I want him to pick the best team

I DO think, based on the past year, that LR is/will be a better manager than PW, especially as he seems to have eased off slightly on his tippy tappy playing out style with Hull (I am told, I haven't seen them)

Its a football Forum, it isn't me against rA, I'm merely commenting on his posts, everybody has an opinion and able to share it should they wish.

I think your suggesting that the formation should be 4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1 rather than Warne's favoured 3-5-2? Though I'd point out that Smith is a midfielder and not a full back.

I seem to remember that last season, Roberts was pilloried by many for his defensive duties, though excellent going forward, Elder fills that gap, but has yet to settle into the side, theres time.

Why Warne would not revert to 4-4-2, or 4-3-2-1 due to pride? I doubt the guy is that daft, but if he has a tactical plan which he has worked on with his defenders then to abandon it on the basis of a few defeats and especially the last game where circumstances combined to rob Derby of at least a pt, would seem strange at this juncture.

On current evidence there is certainly a question mark against Bradley, surprising seen as he played in a team that won the championship play offs last season, but Nelson seems a good recruit to me, I mean he has made the odd mistake, but then who hasn't in the defence so far this season? You say he has recruited so-so defenders yet looking at them they seem to be of a standard needed and its hard to judge when a side is disrupted through injury.

Warne surely picks the team he feels has the best chance of winning? Though again circumstances can and have prevented him from fielding the players he might want to and he has dropped Elder when he hasn't performed so no evidence to date that either consciously or subconsciously he is picking the plyers he has recruited.

Hopefully the weekend off gives him time to work with the players and integrate the new additions, but lets not forget we had 2 good wins prior to the Bolton game and didn't fall apart after the red card that shouldn't have been in that game so whilst we aren't firing on all cylinders yet by any means, talk of a defensive crisis is a little wide of the mark.

Whether Rosenior turns out to be a better manager than Warne is a moot point, managing Hull in the championship without the financial restrictions Derby have in League 1 is a different ball game, apples and pears come to mind. But is irrelevant anyway as he isn't Derby's manager now.

Anyhow it all makes for a debate which after all is the point of a football forum.

[Andy_Faber]

Its a football Forum, it isn't me against rA, I'm merely commenting on his posts, everybody has an opinion and able to share it should they wish.

I think your suggesting that the formation should be 4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1 rather than Warne's favoured 3-5-2? Though I'd point out that Smith is a midfielder and not a full back.

I seem to remember that last season, Roberts was pilloried by many for his defensive duties, though excellent going forward, Elder fills that gap, but has yet to settle into the side, theres time.

Why Warne would not revert to 4-4-2, or 4-3-2-1 due to pride? I doubt the guy is that daft, but if he has a tactical plan which he has worked on with his defenders then to abandon it on the basis of a few defeats and especially the last game where circumstances combined to rob Derby of at least a pt, would seem strange at this juncture.

On current evidence there is certainly a question mark against Bradley, surprising seen as he played in a team that won the championship play offs last season, but Nelson seems a good recruit to me, I mean he has made the odd mistake, but then who hasn't in the defence so far this season? You say he has recruited so-so defenders yet looking at them they seem to be of a standard needed and its hard to judge when a side is disrupted through injury.

Warne surely picks the team he feels has the best chance of winning? Though again circumstances can and have prevented him from fielding the players he might want to and he has dropped Elder when he hasn't performed so no evidence to date that either consciously or subconsciously he is picking the plyers he has recruited.

Hopefully the weekend off gives him time to work with the players and integrate the new additions, but lets not forget we had 2 good wins prior to the Bolton game and didn't fall apart after the red card that shouldn't have been in that game so whilst we aren't firing on all cylinders yet by any means, talk of a defensive crisis is a little wide of the mark.

Whether Rosenior turns out to be a better manager than Warne is a moot point, managing Hull in the championship without the financial restrictions Derby have in League 1 is a different ball game, apples and pears come to mind. But is irrelevant anyway as he isn't Derby's manager now.

Anyhow it all makes for a debate which after all is the point of a football forum.

yes its all just debating points

I take your point that Smith is a midfielder by reputation but I'll add three things - he wasn't for most of last year and made a pretty good (not outstanding) job of it, he at this stage of his career to be a better fullback than midfielder, and a change of role is not out of the question for footballers, I'll cite our hero Dave Mackay and our adversary's hero, Kenny Burns, changed from 'the poor man's Bob Latchford' to a regretably Euro Cup winning centre half.

Roberts had his bad moments yes, I still think he was way better than anything we have to replace him (even the dependable Forsyth)

Maybe pride is the wrong word on Warne's formation, dogma may be more appropriate

I'd question the '2 good wins' thing, I was at the Fleetwood game and watched the vid of the Burton game and it felt a bit hit and hope to me.

I hope I'm wrong on all counts, and as I've said, 'disappointed' and 'frustrated' will do for now

[ramAnag]

yes its all just debating points

I take your point that Smith is a midfielder by reputation but I'll add three things - he wasn't for most of last year and made a pretty good (not outstanding) job of it, he at this stage of his career to be a better fullback than midfielder, and a change of role is not out of the question for footballers, I'll cite our hero Dave Mackay and our adversary's hero, Kenny Burns, changed from 'the poor man's Bob Latchford' to a regretably Euro Cup winning centre half.

Roberts had his bad moments yes, I still think he was way better than anything we have to replace him (even the dependable Forsyth)

Maybe pride is the wrong word on Warne's formation, dogma may be more appropriate

I'd question the '2 good wins' thing, I was at the Fleetwood game and watched the vid of the Burton game and it felt a bit hit and hope to me.

I hope I'm wrong on all counts, and as I've said, 'disappointed' and 'frustrated' will do for now

I can only agree with every word of that.

Swale, if after all this time you only ‘think’ AF and I are questioning the effectiveness of the three at the back strategy and you genuinely don’t understand the relevance of our performances since late January then there’s honestly little point in ‘debating’ further.

I have no interest in any juvenile point scoring argument...it just bores everyone. We both hope for the same thing. Let’s hope we get there without the need for further upheaval. Personally I am less optimistic than I was but in Mr. Clowes I still trust.

[swaledale]

I can only agree with every word of that.

Swale, if after all this time you only ‘think’ AF and I are questioning the effectiveness of the three at the back strategy and you genuinely don’t understand the relevance of our performances since late January then there’s honestly little point in ‘debating’ further.

I have no interest in any juvenile point scoring argument...it just bores everyone. We both hope for the same thing. Let’s hope we get there without the need for further upheaval. Personally I am less optimistic than I was but in Mr. Clowes I still trust.

Ra, you avoiding the fact that after a defeat, you were posting doom and gloom and took no account of the context of that defeat. In fact you still haven't which makes you look a little like one of those fans who thinks administration was a little difficulty we have got over and Derby should be walking this league. I did think you were more astute than that but obviously not and yes I get its boring when you get a detailed response which demolishes the majority of your "concerns", you either admit you were OTT, or back off, you've done the latter. Fair enough.

After all what time? How long has Warne tried to play 3-5-2 consistently? Also where in my response did I say anything about "thinking" AF and you have concerns about 3 at the back.? You need to read what I actually said me thinks.

Anyhow the difference between what you have posted and what AF has posted is that he has identified the issues succinctly and actually I don't disagree, other than his thoughts that Warne will persist with playing the players he has brought in, might be too stubborn to change formation if it doesn't work and has recruited so-so defenders.

He has already dropped Elder who hasn't performed and shuffles the pack where necessary. formation wise he might not have much choice with the injuries, but wouldn't see him sticking to a tactic that isn't working and its too early to judge the defenders, though Bradley hasn't covered himself in glory.

Who have thought it, an accountant able to convey his thoughts more clearly than an ex teacher?