O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[Kent Magpie]

I think until we free ourselves of the ECJ, and either leave or change the structure of the ECHR, plus have a government completely behind Brexit, it will be difficult to see the full benefits of Brexit. There are green shoots though, as it was never going to be an immediate success, especially with world events that have happened since.

So, you want to forego the right for the police to have to investigate things properly, or the right to life, or the right not to be tortured, or the right not to be exploited at work, or the right your freedom (i.e. you can't be imprisioned just because - Habeous Corpus basically), or the right to a fair trial?There are another 13 articles some quite technical. We wrote the damned thing, we had, until this government, the fewest cases lost amongst all the signatories. They are basic rights.

The trouble with leaving the ECHR is that it breaks several other international treaties like the Good Friday Agreement. So it would be just like BREXIT all over again... but with more direct consequences for us as it doesn't apply to just immigrants. Several high profile cases, John Worboys (the taxi rapist) were brought under the auspices of the ECHR (the police failed to conduct a proper investigation).

You can't replace the ECHR with our own version that doesn't have the same rights without removing those rights from all of us.

[Newish Pie]

So, you want to forego the right for the police to have to investigate things properly, or the right to life, or the right not to be tortured, or the right not to be exploited at work, or the right your freedom (i.e. you can't be imprisioned just because - Habeous Corpus basically), or the right to a fair trial?There are another 13 articles some quite technical. We wrote the damned thing, we had, until this government, the fewest cases lost amongst all the signatories. They are basic rights.

The trouble with leaving the ECHR is that it breaks several other international treaties like the Good Friday Agreement. So it would be just like BREXIT all over again... but with more direct consequences for us as it doesn't apply to just immigrants. Several high profile cases, John Worboys (the taxi rapist) were brought under the auspices of the ECHR (the police failed to conduct a proper investigation).

You can't replace the ECHR with our own version that doesn't have the same rights without removing those rights from all of us.

This is a great post. Whenever I come across anyone who disparages the ECHR or the Convention, I ask exactly which article(s) in the Convention they disagree with. And I've yet to receive a proper answer. Rather, what's usually going on is that opponents don't think everyone deserves the same basic rights that people like them deserve. So it's not a problem with the Convention, but with the idea of basic, universal human rights. And often that's motivated by something pretty nasty.

To be fair, some people have just been misled by a constant stream of tabloid news reports about preposterous-sounding legal claims based on rights in the convention. These reports are often inaccurate or partial, either omitting key details or burying them at the end of the article, or they're reports about claims which will be unsuccessful. Which will never be reported.