O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[magpie_mania]

Very true Smiffy, very sore losers and all that though. All too used to getting their own way, and when they don't they skweam and skweam until they do.

Don't really want to go here again, but there's being a good loser and there is also being a good winner.

Can you honestly say that Johnson (if he really was pro-Brexit - I think he sways in the wind towards whatever seems best for him) had any idea how to implement it, that he was a good winner?

Still you haven't given any reasons why Brexit has been so good for us. Are there any?

[Kent Magpie]

I would have thought that "F... we lost but that's the way the cookie crumbles! So let's all make this work" might have been a good enough reason?

But that's not how it works. If you lose a vote you don't make the plans to move things forward - you have no mandate to do that. That has to be done by the winners. Sure, you should help implement those plans when they appear, but the trouble was there were no plans and that falls at the feet of the Brexiteers. That is why you can't put the blame for the failure of Brexit at the door of Remainers.

The trouble was the no vote was based on emotion and vague slogans such as 'Take Back Control' - what does that mean? It means different things to different people, so it united people behind the no vote, but once the vote was won there was no coalition to agree what Brexit actually meant. That is down to Farage, Cummings and Johnson in particular, there was never a workable plan so nothing for anybody 'to make work'. We won't be returning to the EU: they wouldn't have us , and the terms on which we would have to re-join would be unacceptable to us anyway, so once the adults are back in charge (of any political colour as I don't think there is much difference between the Tories and Labour on this) then we will move forward and make the best of a bad situation. I think Sunak has moved things forward a bit and the heat has gone out of the discussion a bit, and I think this will continue after the election.

[countygump]

But that's not how it works. If you lose a vote you don't make the plans to move things forward - you have no mandate to do that. That has to be done by the winners. Sure, you should help implement those plans when they appear, but the trouble was there were no plans and that falls at the feet of the Brexiteers. That is why you can't put the blame for the failure of Brexit at the door of Remainers.

The trouble was the no vote was based on emotion and vague slogans such as 'Take Back Control' - what does that mean? It means different things to different people, so it united people behind the no vote, but once the vote was won there was no coalition to agree what Brexit actually meant. That is down to Farage, Cummings and Johnson in particular, there was never a workable plan so nothing for anybody 'to make work'. We won't be returning to the EU: they wouldn't have us , and the terms on which we would have to re-join would be unacceptable to us anyway, so once the adults are back in charge (of any political colour as I don't think there is much difference between the Tories and Labour on this) then we will move forward and make the best of a bad situation. I think Sunak has moved things forward a bit and the heat has gone out of the discussion a bit, and I think this will continue after the election.

I think you have to factor in the "Cameron effect " as well. After 6 years of austerity, he was a massively unpopular PM. I would imagine a fair few people voted leave just to give him a kicking.

https://iea.org.uk/media/brexit-leav...ew-iea-report/

[Kent Magpie]

I think you have to factor in the "Cameron effect " as well. After 6 years of austerity, he was a massively unpopular PM. I would imagine a fair few people voted leave just to give him a kicking.

https://iea.org.uk/media/brexit-leav...ew-iea-report/

Yes - another factor which made Brexit even more nebulous.

[Woodypie]

Remainers were never going to get behind any plan for Brexit, you know that very well KM. Sunak has today signed the leadership over to the Labour Party at the next election, so lets just see how that pans out. I suggest we will be even more closely aligned with the EU and the WEF and WHO if that was even possible. Coming so close to yesterdays Remembrance Day celebrations, it is such a slur on those who lost their lives fighting for this country's freedom, as we will have no say in anything, from health (future forced pandemics), to finance, to the security of this country.

Conflating remembrance "celebrations" with Brexit is a step too far 59. My Dad, who died this year, fought in the Scheldt campaign, hand-to-hand combat with Germans. He was a life-long Labour supporter and voted Remain.

[Elite_Pie]

It seems the old saying that 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' could also become 'hell hath no fury like a Home Secretary scorned'! Cruella certainly doesn't mince her words. Must admit I'm enjoying this civil war, but I don't get what Sunak hopes to achieve by bringing Cameron back. Sacking someone on the right and bringing in a confirmed remainer will only send a few more Tory gammons to Reform UK. I just can't see what sort of voter it will attract.

The sad truth is that we are left with a hopelessly incompetent and corrupt government for another year. And to anyone who says "they are all as bad", when did we ever have a government this bad?

[Old_pie]

It seems the old saying that 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' could also become 'hell hath no fury like a Home Secretary scorned'! Cruella certainly doesn't mince her words. Must admit I'm enjoying this civil war, but I don't get what Sunak hopes to achieve by bringing Cameron back. Sacking someone on the right and bringing in a confirmed remainer will only send a few more Tory gammons to Reform UK. I just can't see what sort of voter it will attract.

The sad truth is that we are left with a hopelessly incompetent and corrupt government for another year. And to anyone who says "they are all as bad", when did we ever have a government this bad?

.. after the next election.

[Elite_Pie]

.. after the next election.

If you have that degree of foresight, what will the score be on Saturday?

I badly need a few YAPs.

[Old_pie]

If you have that degree of foresight, what will the score be on Saturday?

I badly need a few YAPs.

I've already predicted the result of the next election but I will predict that Notts will do better in the next 5 years than will the government.

[Elite_Pie]

I've already predicted the result of the next election but I will predict that Notts will do better in the next 5 years than will the government.

Can't see Boris getting back in myself.