Fans' Forum tonight

[1955pie]

Can someone help me please? I have forgotten the name of the presenter/question master at the forum.

[Magpies1959]

Maybe it is not in some countries culture to take an interest in football.

[SwalePie]

Can someone help me please? I have forgotten the name of the presenter/question master at the forum.

I think it was Nick Richardson, the Media and Communications Manager

[slack_pie]

Maybe it is not in some countries culture to take an interest in football.

It's definitely a cultural thing in some cases. Besides, while it's all good and well to say we should try and attract, say, more Asian people, it's not clear how we would go about that in a practical sense.

We're a football club, so our goal should be to provide an outstanding matchday experience for everyone who wants to come, with exciting, winning football on the pitch. We're actually doing well at both these things, hence the increase in attendance. It doesn't matter to me what ethnicity or gender the people who decide to go are, it matters that more people in general are going.

[Old_pie]

Still bloody frustrating at times though innit ?

Big Tone wouldn't be 'appy. And Tommy would just complain if the laces were facing the wrong way when his head hit the ball.

[jackal2]

Luke:

Okay right, I'm going to tell you the truth now.

We have the most shots on target from corner in the EFL. One in four corners results in a shot on target, and is the best by a long way. We've actually scored the most goals in the division from corners, but you don't know they're from corners do you, because unless we whack it in a box it's not "a corner". But [when] we take a corner, we pass the ball until that ball is turned over and we give it away, or it goes off the pitch. It's still a corner, still a corner okay, and we are extremely successful at corners.

I am sorry to break your hearts but it's the truth, because I've made sure we've done the research. I'm being serious now. Corners have a very low success rate across football worldwide: you know, putting the ball into the box, but of course when somebody runs through the crowd and heads the ball, smashes into the back of the net, we remember it. We don't remember the 50 corners that just got caught by the goalkeeper, hit the side netting, [or were] headed away. We just forget, and we also forget that when the ball comes into the pitch immediately and is passed five times and then crossed from the other side, we think it was "open play", that it was just a part of the game, but it wasn't... it was [still] from a corner!

When you play against Notts County, one of the issues you have is that the ball is in play for longer than any other game in the EFL. So, you will notice that the players have been instructed that they sprint, [puts the ball] down and pass it immediately, so you don't get a break. Some of the defenders, many, many of the defenders, they love corners because they can have a rest. They're six foot three so they don't want Dan Crowley running at them, or running behind them. They definitely don't want Macka in the box, free and scoring 42 goals from open play. Right?

So we take the ball, put it down immediately, pass the ball, and the defender [thinks], ah not Notts County again, come on, just kick it into the goalkeeper's hands so we can smash it the length for the pitch and break. No, not going to happen I'm afraid, I'm sorry. We kicked one last season directly into the box and Macca scored... you know why? Because everybody was at the corner trying to stop us playing short!

So I'm sorry to break everyone's hearts, but this is the reality that we are extremely successful from corners.

That is a thing of beauty!

I would encourage ALL to read such an enlightening response from our head coach to such a commonly posed question from supporters.

Luke Williams explanation of his thinking around short corners (which I've tidied up a bit above from the YouTube transcript because I think it deserves to be done full justice) was nothing short of brilliant.

I'd already previously understood the principle that it's about not giving possession away easily, but to hear the full evidence-based justification was something else. I've never heard a manager or head coach open up about their tactics as eloquently and honestly as this.

It's an incredible, huge sign of respect to the fans that Luke is willing to offer such a detailed justification. Many traditional managers when challenged on their tactics would just become surly and take the "What do ordinary fans know about professional football?" attitude. Luke accepts the challenge and uses it as an opportunity to explain his philosophy, such is his confidence in it. Imagine how his players feel when they ask a question and receive a detailed explanation like this. How could you not be impressed by someone who has done this depth of analysis and yet can explain the findings in such an accessible way?

Williams was also right with his evidence-based argument about time-wasting, where the perception that we take too long over throw-ins is more than outweighed by the amount of time it takes teams to take corners, set-pieces and even long-throw-ins. The problem he faces, quite frankly, is that a lot of officials - especially at this level - simply haven't reached that level of football education and enlightenment yet.

Luke Williams and the Reedtz Brothers appear to me to be a match made in football heaven in terms of their willingness to look at the game in new ways and their ability to develop strategies based on evidence rather than emotion or tradition. I sincerely hope the partnership lasts for many years, not least because the football it's producing is the most consistently entertaining I've ever seen outside the Premier League.

[Kent Magpie]

Surely simple things like making sure that the womens' loos are of an acceptable standard, disabled people are as well catered for as the infrastructure allows are just no brainers. And what is wrong with trying to encourage people from other backgrounds to come and see what we are about?

I don't think anybody is really saying that the crowd must reflect the population, but why shouldn't it be an aspiration? It isn't as if these new fans would be replacing existing fans, or that there would be a quota of white straight males, black gay men or women etc. The more the merrier as far as I am concerned and if we do reflect the population then we are doing a lot right.

[Newish Pie]

It's definitely a cultural thing in some cases. Besides, while it's all good and well to say we should try and attract, say, more Asian people, it's not clear how we would go about that in a practical sense.

We're a football club, so our goal should be to provide an outstanding matchday experience for everyone who wants to come, with exciting, winning football on the pitch. We're actually doing well at both these things, hence the increase in attendance. It doesn't matter to me what ethnicity or gender the people who decide to go are, it matters that more people in general are going.

It's obviously not just a Notts problem, it's a football problem. Crowds are much whiter and much "maler" for most teams than the communities they're based in.

Why that is a good question, and as a white bloke myself I can only speculate. Part of it might be generational... how many of us here were taken to their first match by a relative, and had that early experience? If you've never been, you don't know what you're missing out on, and you don't know what to expect.

For me, it's hard to imagine a less threatening environment than the Pavis Stand. But even when I went to watch County for the first time after I moved to Nottingham, I knew it would be fine because I knew what to expect. I knew to go for the Pavis not the Kop. I knew it was fine to talk to the people around me, that no-one would mind that I was an Everton fan coming to watch my new local team, that no-one would have a go at me for not knowing the words to the songs, and would actually quite like to tell me about their players.

I know that you're supposed to stand up when the team enter the field, that you can stand if a goal is scored or to acknowledged departing substitutes and maybe at moments of high drama but should otherwise sit down. I knew (roughly) what level of bad language (swearing) and worse language (discriminatory language) to expect. I knew that a lot of crowd anger is pantomime and performative. It's people venting... that guy turning the air blue about the offside decision is just letting off steam, and he's not going to turn on me and it's not going to escalate to violence. I know that as a middle aged white bloke, no-one's going to look at me twice.

That's a lot of tacit knowledge that most of us take completely for granted because we've always been to the football. If you're in a minoritised group, you may not know any of that. You might not know if you'll be welcome. Maybe you (or your parents) remember football violence and hooliganism, maybe you remember ***ist and racist songs being openly sung at football matches. We all know how little this happens any more, but that's because we go to matches.

Parallel case: sometimes I see stand up comedy bills with made up entirely of comedians of black or asian heritage. Probably I know one or two and I'd like to see them... but do I go? Would I be welcome? If I was welcome, would I be picked on by the comedian? Would people stare? Should I leave them their space to talk about their cultural things? Genuinely don't know the answer, but this is my best parallel case.

Why does it matter? I agree that we don't all have to like all things to the same level and degree, and that the composition of the crowd doesn't affect the quality of the short corners (can we have a song about short corners? we need one...). I agree it maybe doesn't matter in brute income terms if we'll selling most seats most games.

But... I think it matters because of social integration. Football clubs are ***** parts of local communities, they bring people together, and surely it's better if that's the whole community. Others have very wisely said that this forum brings together a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise interact much/at all, and surely that's true of going to the game as well. And for men who aren't great at small talk, it's something in common to talk about.

It's funny how the people who like to sound off about "multiculturalism" having "failed" are also against actual opportunities for greater integration and interaction and having more in common or in taking an interest in "our" culture, or at the very least don't want to promote them.

[1955pie]

I think it was Nick Richardson, the Media and Communications Manager

Thanks Swale

[durhampie]

It's a good stadium and certainly one to be proud of but if you have been to matches elsewhere around the country you will know that isn't even close to being true.

Add Bradford City AFC and Reading FC to the list.

As for our beloved Meadow Lane it's without doubt Championship quality, it's just a bit barren and bare. With a serious lick of paint, some brightening up (especially all stands bar the Derek Pavis), and some basic improvements, which have already begun, I think it can can be transformed to something pretty special and much improved. Probably unwise to encourage our new CEO, who can help make those improvement happen, to leave. He was part of an impressive panel at the Fans Forum. Far better than the ones in the 90s and 00s I attended.

Also Meadow Lane is in a great location, walkable to the city centre, close to the train station, located between a depressed and a very affluent area next to lovely canals, lots of nice pubs, the River Trent, and a stones throw from a beautiful Test cricket and some other large football stadium. Compared to the majority of other ground locations (surrounded by terrace houses or in the middle of nowhere on a retail park) it's a gem of a location.

You need to go to places like Barrow, Newport, Sutton, FGR and Harrogate to realise how good our stadium is..