Careless Tories!

[ramAnag]

You do know that being on the ‘gravy train’ translates to ‘making as much money as possible for as little effort as possible’ don’t you?
It’s kind of not dissimilar from those who abuse ‘Benefit Street’, only much higher amounts are involved.

I’m sure you and I - probably all on here - will have shared the aspiration of working hard to provide the best lifestyle for ourselves and our families. We’ve wanted to live in decent places, drive decent cars, have good family holidays etc etc and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

All this however is on an entirely different level and, imo, there is something fundamentally wrong when those on your ‘gravy train’ can earn more in a week than others in more humble - yet often vi tal - employment can earn in a year...possibly two.

The idea of endless enquiries into wrongdoing by those at the top conducted, at massive expense to the public, by others at the top seems to sum up so much of what is wrong imo.

[MadAmster]

The difference between inquiry and enquiry is minor and deals with a nuance in meaning: inquiry is preferred for formal requests and official investigations. enquiry is much broader, referring to any requests, formal or informal.

I would, respectfully, suggest the the current investigation into the Covid/PPE debacle is an inquiry rather than an enquiry.

Talking of gravy trains.... just booked another week away in the sun in January This retirement lark is... great. Possibly dong the Burton game as well. Maybe Germany in February as part of my 70th celebrations. A week in and around Derby and Burton in March, taking in the Reading and Bolton games. Back for a game in April. Stay at home in May and get some serious cycling done. Away somewhere in June. A few concerts sandwiched in between...

[ramAnag]

The difference between inquiry and enquiry is minor and deals with a nuance in meaning: inquiry is preferred for formal requests and official investigations. enquiry is much broader, referring to any requests, formal or informal.

I would, respectfully, suggest the the current investigation into the Covid/PPE debacle is an inquiry rather than an enquiry.

Talking of gravy trains.... just booked another week away in the sun in January This retirement lark is... great. Possibly dong the Burton game as well. Maybe Germany in February as part of my 70th celebrations. A week in and around Derby and Burton in March, taking in the Reading and Bolton games. Back for a game in April. Stay at home in May and get some serious cycling done. Away somewhere in June. A few concerts sandwiched in between...

With the greatest respect MA, neither you nor I are on a gravy train. Retirement is a reward...for all our working lives and basically for still being alive!
Between my wife and I we trained for eight years and worked full time for about 67 years. We now receive, annually between us and after tax, the equivalent of approximately sixty hours of a KC’s apparent salary
I have no problem at all with what we receive via our state and employment based pensions...it allows us to live a good life doing exactly the sort of things you suggest, but it is no ‘gravy train’ and my point is that I do feel there to be something wrong when the state is meeting such outgoings to essentially investigate itself at a time when hospitals and schools etc are chronically underfunded.

[MadAmster]

With the greatest respect MA, neither you nor I are on a gravy train. Retirement is a reward...for all our working lives and basically for still being alive!
Between my wife and I we trained for eight years and worked full time for about 67 years. We now receive, annually between us and after tax, the equivalent of approximately sixty hours of a KC’s apparent salary
I have no problem at all with what we receive via our state and employment based pensions...it allows us to live a good life doing exactly the sort of things you suggest, but it is no ‘gravy train’ and my point is that I do feel there to be something wrong when the state is meeting such outgoings to essentially investigate itself at a time when hospitals and schools etc are chronically underfunded.

It was meant as a sarcy line. Maybe I should have included a emoji...

I worked for 43 years before getting out at 60.

[Geoff Parkstone]

With the greatest respect MA, neither you nor I are on a gravy train. Retirement is a reward...for all our working lives and basically for still being alive!
Between my wife and I we trained for eight years and worked full time for about 67 years. We now receive, annually between us and after tax, the equivalent of approximately sixty hours of a KC’s apparent salary
I have no problem at all with what we receive via our state and employment based pensions...it allows us to live a good life doing exactly the sort of things you suggest, but it is no ‘gravy train’ and my point is that I do feel there to be something wrong when the state is meeting such outgoings to essentially investigate itself at a time when hospitals and schools etc are chronically underfunded.

Part of me sympathises with your viewpoint rA but would you rather that no inquiry takes place? Rest assured, the entire exercise will not be undertaken using people at that hourly rate, but there will be a team of people beneath that level who do the hard yards. 1000 an hour for doing photocopying isn't likely.

It's just a headline rate thrown out there by ****stirrers in the press - and it's found a willing believer.

No matter how much you stress you are happy with your financial lot, I can't help but see the hooded green eyes in your posts.

[ramAnag]

Part of me sympathises with your viewpoint rA but would you rather that no inquiry takes place? Rest assured, the entire exercise will not be undertaken using people at that hourly rate, but there will be a team of people beneath that level who do the hard yards. 1000 an hour for doing photocopying isn't likely.

It's just a headline rate thrown out there by ****stirrers in the press - and it's found a willing believer.

No matter how much you stress you are happy with your financial lot, I can't help but see the hooded green eyes in your posts.

I do appreciate that it’s only those at the top, GP and I haven’t seen it mentioned in the press. It was mentioned by a friend who is much better connected (and wealthier) than me...and possibly even you. I even asked on here if it was likely to be true.

I am honestly ‘happy with my financial lot’. You know how often I go on holiday. We run two good vehicles, one 16 months old, the other six months old, live in a very pleasant house/area and go out when we want.

The nearest I come to the green eyed thing is that my grandchildren are beginning to run circles round me during garden football matches and the realisation that I’m never going to play cricket at Old Trafford...but at 69 you expect that.

My concern, honestly, is the way in which those at the top benefit (both directly and indirectly) from the wrongdoing of others at the top especially at a time when public resources appear to be in such short supply.

P.S. I don’t accept that the alternative is no public inquiry.

[Andy_Faber]

You do know that being on the ‘gravy train’ translates to ‘making as much money as possible for as little effort as possible’ don’t you?
It’s kind of not dissimilar from those who abuse ‘Benefit Street’, only much higher amounts are involved.

I’m sure you and I - probably all on here - will have shared the aspiration of working hard to provide the best lifestyle for ourselves and our families. We’ve wanted to live in decent places, drive decent cars, have good family holidays etc etc and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

All this however is on an entirely different level and, imo, there is something fundamentally wrong when those on your ‘gravy train’ can earn more in a week than others in more humble - yet often vi tal - employment can earn in a year...possibly two.

The idea of endless enquiries into wrongdoing by those at the top conducted, at massive expense to the public, by others at the top seems to sum up so much of what is wrong imo.

I'll frame my response with less barbs than GP (as usual!) but your definition reinforces my point - tell me hand on heart that you wouldn't have taken the opportunity to work (lets say) 5% less 'hard' (and that's all aspects of your job including dealing with obnoxious traveller types etc, not just phyical effort) and been paid 5% more, within a profession that you love/have the right skill set for? That puts you on the gravy train, albeit in third class.

Its also a bit hypocritical to have a downer on KCs (who, remember, work in many areas, often for 'the people' and not just public enquiries, and require a mind-numbing understanding of their expert area) when you like the rest of us worship at the altar of sporting Gods who (directly) provide no public service and who's remuneration puts KC's to shame

[Geoff Parkstone]

I do appreciate that it’s only those at the top, GP and I haven’t seen it mentioned in the press. It was mentioned by a friend who is much better connected (and wealthier) than me...and possibly even you. I even asked on here if it was likely to be true.

I am honestly ‘happy with my financial lot’. You know how often I go on holiday. We run two good vehicles, one 16 months old, the other six months old, live in a very pleasant house/area and go out when we want.

The nearest I come to the green eyed thing is that my grandchildren are beginning to run circles round me during garden football matches and the realisation that I’m never going to play cricket at Old Trafford...but at 69 you expect that.

My concern, honestly, is the way in which those at the top benefit (both directly and indirectly) from the wrongdoing of others at the top especially at a time when public resources appear to be in such short supply.

P.S. I don’t accept that the alternative is no public inquiry.

Ah well, I've already played cricket at Lords (and lifted a trophy) but such things are now distant memories only.....

[ramAnag]

I'll frame my response with less barbs than GP (as usual!) but your definition reinforces my point - tell me hand on heart that you wouldn't have taken the opportunity to work (lets say) 5% less 'hard' (and that's all aspects of your job including dealing with obnoxious traveller types etc, not just phyical effort) and been paid 5% more, within a profession that you love/have the right skill set for? That puts you on the gravy train, albeit in third class.

Its also a bit hypocritical to have a downer on KCs (who, remember, work in many areas, often for 'the people' and not just public enquiries, and require a mind-numbing understanding of their expert area) when you like the rest of us worship at the altar of sporting Gods who (directly) provide no public service and who's remuneration puts KC's to shame

In all honesty I never chased the holy grail of working ‘less hard’...although I’ll concede I would have liked to have improved my lot by doing only the parts of the job I loved and being able to sidestep the bits I hated. There were times...games lessons, theatre trips, and just teaching those lessons I loved when I genuinely had to stop and think, ‘am I really being paid for this’? On the other hand....!

As for ‘worshiping at the altar of sporting Gods’...I don’t. I think however good the likes of Salah and Co. their level of remuneration is just as obscene as those receiving the salaries we are talking of. They are, I suppose, the classic cases of ‘supply and demand’ that you and GP will so readily defend but I don’t ‘worship’ them at all...the main difference is perhaps that they are not benefiting from the wrong doing of society’s hierarchy in the first place.

[Andy_Faber]

In all honesty I never chased the holy grail of working ‘less hard’...although I’ll concede I would have liked to have improve my lot by doing only the parts of the job I loved and being able to sidestep the bits I hated. There were times...games lessons, theatre trips, and just teaching those lessons I loved when I genuinely had to stop and think, ‘am I really being paid for this’? On the other hand....!

As for ‘worshiping at the altar of sporting Gods’...I don’t. I think however good the likes of Salah and Co. their level of remuneration is just as obscene as those receiving the salaries we are talking of. They are, I suppose, the classic cases of ‘supply and demand’ that you and GP will so readily defend but I don’t ‘worship’ them at all...the main difference is perhaps that they are not benefiting from the wrong doing of society’s hierarchy in the first place.

Well argued as usual, we'll just have to accept we come at this from different angles