Next two weeks will show us what ambition this club has.

[mellowmiller]

Ragingpup said:
"Of the 'giving up going' and 'I've had enough' brigade struggling to emotionally deal with a **** season, we've heard it all before. I too have supported through the 1.5k home games, George Kerr, Dave Cussack, and at a distance the Don Valley years. It's the same old refrain when seasons go to ****. Some will quit, but most will be back if we get an optimistic rebuild and new signings under Richardson, who lets remember has done it before at that level."

I think this actually misses the point.
People I know (season ticket holders) who have stopped going haven't done so because were having a sh*t season it's because the same thing keeps happening.
On the one hand we're told that lessons have been learned and we're better equipped to compete in the Championship only then to be faced with the counter argument that we can't compete financially at that level.
So they ask, quite reasonably "what's the point if it all?"
So what if we have a good season in League 1 and get promoted? We'll only have another crap time in the division above.
Isn't the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting the situation to improve?
The club is already seeing lots of empty seats this season and many of those supporters won't be coming back.
If people think that is an acceptable situation they are sadly deluded.

[Wiltsmiller]

[QUOTE=ragingpup;40429886]

The thing that hinders you, me and everybody who supports the club is that we really have no idea what efforts and actions are already being undertaken by the recruitment team. If you and I were sat with them, and asked them to explain all of the behind the scenes actions, efforts and the reasons for why some strategies worked but most strategies in trying to sign proven championship quality players above our competitors haven't worked, we could then discuss more fruitfully what strategies and innovations they are neglecting to use, or indeed we might come away thinking, "Jeez, these guys are doing everything, but I didn't realise how complex it is to bag players to succeed at this level".

That will understandably never happen, so we won't know. I think the key difference is that, due to the fact that we have had the most successful decade in my 50 years following the Millers, I am tending to trust the team that have contributed to that success. Not blindly, but I tend to imagine how hard it must be to put in huge amounts of effort and have players stolen from you at the last minute in a cut throat money dominated market. You however, seem to work on the assumption that there is loads more that can and should be being done, but when I asked you what, you didn't respond. So, specifically, what do you have in mind that we should be trying to do that will make it more likely that a proven championship player will sign for us over the other championship clubs?

My view totally. You would think a lot on here have inside knowledge to make them so "sure" of the facts. And when was the last time we got players in early in the transfer window?

[ragingpup]

Ragingpup said:
"Of the 'giving up going' and 'I've had enough' brigade struggling to emotionally deal with a **** season, we've heard it all before. I too have supported through the 1.5k home games, George Kerr, Dave Cussack, and at a distance the Don Valley years. It's the same old refrain when seasons go to ****. Some will quit, but most will be back if we get an optimistic rebuild and new signings under Richardson, who lets remember has done it before at that level."

I think this actually misses the point.
People I know (season ticket holders) who have stopped going haven't done so because were having a sh*t season it's because the same thing keeps happening.
On the one hand we're told that lessons have been learned and we're better equipped to compete in the Championship only then to be faced with the counter argument that we can't compete financially at that level.
So they ask, quite reasonably "what's the point if it all?"
So what if we have a good season in League 1 and get promoted? We'll only have another crap time in the division above.
Isn't the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting the situation to improve?
The club is already seeing lots of empty seats this season and many of those supporters won't be coming back.
If people think that is an acceptable situation they are sadly deluded.

Would they be happier with reducing our ambition and aiming for mid table league 1 season after season so we don't have to suffer the pain of relegation?

In our situation, location and budget, I would think we should be very grateful that we have had several great promotions in recent years, even if we couldn't cope with the higher league. It happens with lots of clubs punching above their weight with the budget they have: Norwich, Blades etc yo-yoing between the championship and the premiership, and other teams doinig the same with different budgets in the different leagues.

Going forward, a successful league one campaign, followed by some successful seasons winning relegation fights is the dream for us, and is possible given the right manager, great recruitment, squad fitness and balance but the law of the jungle is that such a manager, and players will be snapped up by the bigger beasts.

Is it not just possible to enjoy the success we have, within the means we have, accept that what we have achieved in the last decade is a relative success for us giving us great memories and may not last much longer anyway. Hopefully Richardson can steady us and get us winning again in leaguue one. You might not believe it, but a few good signings and subsequent results can put the smiles back on our miserable ****ing faces and bring back the punters.

Just out of interest, same question to you as to Derby: you say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing again and expect the same outcome. Fair enough - but what do you think we should do differently, specifically?

[ragingpup]

He chased the money and left us high and dry without any staff, simple as that, no other subtext required

He got more money, fair enough but Derby offer a much greater infrastructure for a manager to build their career on, work with better facilities, and attract better players. I think that would have been a big factor also, as well as the fact that he had expressed in the last year he had felt he was going round in circles with our restrictions, inability to expand, hold down best players etc.

If he had accepted big money at Doncaster, then you'd have more of a point.

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

When you look at supporters saying they are packing in going to games next season.
I wonder what percentage of season ticket holders are over 60 years of age, so
getting a good deal for games in what ever league.

North Stand
Adult works out around £17.50 [£405] / Concession around £11.50 [£265] per game

West Stand / Family Stand
Adult works out around £19.00 [£440] / Concession around £12.50 [£290] per game

With ever increasing prices on bills at home, are fans going to not bother with a
season ticket, & select odd games, in what will be in league one next season.

[mellowmiller]

Ragingpup asked "Just out of interest, same question to you as to Derby: you say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing again and expect the same outcome. Fair enough - but what do you think we should do differently, specifically?"

The "insanity" comment actually came from some of the people who have stopped going (they were referring to their own repetitive attendance habits) and I certainly don't claim to know what more the club can do under its present ownership.
What does seem apparent though is that there is growing disillusionment amongst some of the younger supporters, many of whom probably don't feel the same affinity with the club as those of us that have "been there, seen that etc."
It's only my opinion but I genuinely feel the club is in danger of going into something of a decline as things stand right now.

[ragingpup]

Ragingpup asked "Just out of interest, same question to you as to Derby: you say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing again and expect the same outcome. Fair enough - but what do you think we should do differently, specifically?"

The "insanity" comment actually came from some of the people who have stopped going (they were referring to their own repetitive attendance habits) and I certainly don't claim to know what more the club can do under its present ownership.
What does seem apparent though is that there is growing disillusionment amongst some of the younger supporters, many of whom probably don't feel the same affinity with the club as those of us that have "been there, seen that etc."
It's only my opinion but I genuinely feel the club is in danger of going into something of a decline as things stand right now.

Fair enough and accept your observations. I wish I had the time to go through the threads on here on previous relegation seasons, especially Warne's first, and see if people were posting exactly the same kind of comment. I'm sure they probably were.

[mellowmiller]

When you look at supporters saying they are packing in going to games next season.
I wonder what percentage of season ticket holders are over 60 years of age, so
getting a good deal for games in what ever league.

North Stand
Adult works out around £17.50 [£405] / Concession around £11.50 [£265] per game

West Stand / Family Stand
Adult works out around £19.00 [£440] / Concession around £12.50 [£290] per game

With ever increasing prices on bills at home, are fans going to not bother with a
season ticket, & select odd games, in what will be in league one next season.

I think you're probably right ELK.
It might not be difficult to get seats together next term if season ticket holders don't renew which means people will be more able to pick and choose which games they want to attend.
That's not good news for the club from a financial perspective.

[CAMiller]

I think you're probably right ELK.
It might not be difficult to get seats together next term if season ticket holders don't renew which means people will be more able to pick and choose which games they want to attend.
That's not good news for the club from a financial perspective.

Not sure if we actually pay anyone £10K/week but to put it in perspective the loss of 1500 season ticket holders (at an average of £333) is roughly equivalent to shedding one player on that amount.

[mellowmiller]

Fair enough and accept your observations. I wish I had the time to go through the threads on here on previous relegation seasons, especially Warne's first, and see if people were posting exactly the same kind of comment. I'm sure they probably were.

I'm not really bothered what people on here were saying though.
What concerns me is that people in their 40s and younger who have sat in the same area as me since we moved to NYS have stopped going even though they have season tickets and we still have lots of games left to play.
There's nothing good about that.