Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

I think we all know people who "work the system", some more than others. In my case it's a South African woman who racks up huge bills on credit cards and simply ignores them for the necessary years that they get written off. Not just one but countless. Also claims rent payment support off council / tax credits, but still defaults on rent and works in the grey market whilst still claiming full benefits. Brand new phones, new cars, holidays regularly. How do I know? She openly brags about it. Should be shot /imprisoned/departed in that order

I agree, we all know people who ‘work the system’…but I certainly don’t know anyone who works it to the extent of your ‘South African woman’ or Andy’s well travelled friend.
We mustn’t lose perspective on this one. There’s a willingness to believe all we are told about ‘Benefit Street’ skivers but aren’t those from ‘Entitlement Avenue’ who play the other end of the spectrum - MP’s expenses and Covid profiteers spring to mind as the most obviously hypocritical - just as guilty and even more costly?
There are many more forms of ‘working the system’ but the upcoming GE is about many things…best not to get hung up on benefits and boats imo, however much they might want us to.

[MadAmster]

Mid 80s to mid 90s I knew a Dutch lad, in his 20s and early 30s, who "played the system". Not particularly lazy but was happy with the lifestyle he had. He would work, and work hard, getting decent money, up to the point where he qualified for the dole. Then spend as much time on the dole as was allowed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

One day, he decided he wanted to improve his standard of living and entered the workforce full time and permanently. It might be that I had a hand in it. One day he asked me why I and others in our "circle" didn't seem to appreciate his perfectly legal lifestyle. I replied that, whilst I didn't condone it, as long as he could get away with it and was happy with it, I wasn't overly worried. I did point out that my taxes and those of the rest of our friends were keeping him but we didn't complain as it was legal. I went on to point out that he'd been lucky to get away with it for some 10 years and that, sooner or later, prospective employers would start to see a pattern and not want to take the risk that he'd be gone in 6 to 9 months and he might find gaining employ in a role he wanted and at a wage he would want getting ever more difficult.

[Andy_Faber]

I agree, we all know people who ‘work the system’…but I certainly don’t know anyone who works it to the extent of your ‘South African woman’ or Andy’s well travelled friend.
We mustn’t lose perspective on this one. There’s a willingness to believe all we are told about ‘Benefit Street’ skivers but aren’t those from ‘Entitlement Avenue’ who play the other end of the spectrum - MP’s expenses and Covid profiteers spring to mind as the most obviously hypocritical - just as guilty and even more costly?
There are many more forms of ‘working the system’ but the upcoming GE is about many things…best not to get hung up on benefits and boats imo, however much they might want us to.

One point correction rA, if ‘we’ includes me, I believe what I see more than what I’m told. If my ‘well travelled friend’ was the only example I had, I wouldn’t have mentioned her but I’m aware of many, some definitely ‘playing’, some more innocent/ignorant including another South African family I know (probably not GPs pal) who, when I discussed it with them, didn’t actually recognise/accept that they were on benefits!

NB yes the GE is about many things and yes including your Covid profiteer targets, but whether justified or not ‘benefit scroungers’ will be a contentious issue and be thankful we have (temporarily at least) moved off immigration…

[ramAnag]

One point correction rA, if ‘we’ includes me, I believe what I see more than what I’m told. If my ‘well travelled friend’ was the only example I had, I wouldn’t have mentioned her but I’m aware of many, some definitely ‘playing’, some more innocent/ignorant including another South African family I know (probably not GPs pal) who, when I discussed it with them, didn’t actually recognise/accept that they were on benefits!

NB yes the GE is about many things and yes including your Covid profiteer targets, but whether justified or not ‘benefit scroungers’ will be a contentious issue and be thankful we have (temporarily at least) moved off immigration…

Doubtless immigration will be an issue, Andy, and benefit scrounging - in whatever form - too, but for me they are relatively insignificant compared with the rebuilding of our health, education, social, policing and sewage/water treatment systems not to mention the cost of living, the housing situation and our roads and railways all after years of neglect. I’ll add in the behaviour of (largely) Tory MP’s and PM’s over the last five years and don’t get me started on the ludicrous attempt to reintroduce National Service which is, I believe, absolutely guaranteed to backfire and alienate not just younger voters but their parents and grandparents too.

P.S. I don’t think GP’s South African was a ‘pal’. Didn’t he want her shot?

[swaledale]

I think we all know people who "work the system", some more than others. In my case it's a South African woman who racks up huge bills on credit cards and simply ignores them for the necessary years that they get written off. Not just one but countless. Also claims rent payment support off council / tax credits, but still defaults on rent and works in the grey market whilst still claiming full benefits. Brand new phones, new cars, holidays regularly. How do I know? She openly brags about it. Should be shot /imprisoned/departed in that order

Ah yes, we all know somebody who makes brash claims, as to how true those claims might be, well I guess you believe what you want to believe. I know there are all sorts of scammers, drug dealers etc. etc. who I'd be putting the squeeze on first but it doesn't fit he narrative.

[Ramshank72]

"Replacing Rishi with Starmer is like being a kid in the 70's and being told that the Jimmy Saville visit has been cancelled, only to hear the sound of a didgeridoo coming down the corridor."
Not my joke, but found it funny.

[Andy_Faber]

"Replacing Rishi with Starmer is like being a kid in the 70's and being told that the Jimmy Saville visit has been cancelled, only to hear the sound of a didgeridoo coming down the corridor."
Not my joke, but found it funny.

We don’t do humour on here son

But yes I did too

[swaledale]

I have an issue with anecdotal evidence even if it supports my POV! For one simple reason its very often false! In your example you have no idea by your own admission how the holiday is funded. There could be any number of perfectly reasonable explanations for that why pick the one that says "Scam"?

A universal income would be paid to everybody, so if one works, it enhances ones lifestyle always presuming that a person wishes to have the rewards that a paying job provides.

I don't understand why people are so keen to "punch down" on those they feel are gaming the system, yet ignore the far bigger financial and other scams that are happening elsewhere. Given that tax evasion and avoidance is costing the Uk more, I'm more irritated by people who earn millions paying an effective tax rate around half of what I pay then somebody scraping around at the bottom.

Having worked with lower income groups, there is no way I'd want their lifestyle and I doubt many of the people moaning about it would either.

I mentioned the CEO's et all, precisely to make the point, there is a tendency to "punch down" and in doing so overlook the real scammers and people playing the system. I suspect that's because many people don't think avoiding tax, not paying full wages or getting an unfair advantage through connections or private education is exactly what they would do if they had the chance.

[Andy_Faber]

I have an issue with anecdotal evidence even if it supports my POV! For one simple reason its very often false! In your example you have no idea by your own admission how the holiday is funded.

You need to start reading posts before you reply rather than imagining whats written. I have every idea how its funded. I also didn't use the anecdote as an example of a 'scam', as far as I know everything she does is within the law.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Ah yes, we all know somebody who makes brash claims, as to how true those claims might be, well I guess you believe what you want to believe. I know there are all sorts of scammers, drug dealers etc. etc. who I'd be putting the squeeze on first but it doesn't fit he narrative.

As you want evidential matter - (a) credit cards, has gone thru courts, tens of thousands due, ordered to pay £1 a week as "no assets - nice car a necessity to take kids to school (both over 16)", "no earnings to attach" (b) rent - taken to court by landlord, again ordered to pay token amount as no assets/earnings (c) know works on grey market as offered to do cleaning for me! "if could fit it in" for cash. I declined.