Question for Islay

[islaydarkblue]

How much debt does Dundee football club have at this current time?
A rough figure?
The previous owners incrued debts we were unable to pay back,hence 2 admins.
Are FPS doing the same or are they funding the losses?

£4.1 million after a debt for equity share transaction of just over £700k at the end of April 2024.
The outstanding debts at Admin 1 were £22 million but we owned Dens Park and the Marrs had given financial guarantees.
The outstanding debts at Admin 2 were just over £2 million. Dundee Football Club Limited no longer owned Dens Park which had been transferred into the ownership of Sandeman Properties Limited in 2007 with Dundee Football Club Limited directors on the board of directors
In March 2009 Lloyds Banking Group sold the title deeds of Dens Park to John Bennet for £500k and wrote off the remaining £6.5 million debt due to HBOS which the club were due to repay after the end of Admin 1.
Tim Keyes who is the main entity of FPS is funding the losses by debt for equity share transactions.
This is why the share capital has to keep being increased every five years.

[islaydarkblue]

The club has no debt, the Yanks have it, and if they walk they take it with them bar £50k

The £4.1 million debt (£4.8 million at the end of May 2023):is listed in the Dundee Football Club Limited annual accounts.
If the Yanks walk away Dundee Football Cub Limited will still have the £4.8 million listed in their annual accounts for the year ending 31st May 2023.
Tim Keyes (FPS) will have to write off his loans via FPS and Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited given to Dundee Football Club Limited plus that added problem of who is going to repay the loan taken out by the latest directors of Sandeman Properties Limited (Tim Keyes and John Nelms) secured over Dens Park with Soho Green.
The interest rates payable to Soho Green payable for this loan is between 0.95% and 2% per month which equates to between 11.40% and 24% per annum plus the original amount of the loan.

[islaydarkblue]

I suppose my other question would be could they sell dens and recoup that money?

The Yanks cannot sell Dens Park as on 3rd October 2023 they borrowed funds from the Isle of Man based financial company Soho Green putting up the Dens Park Stadium as security for their loan.
I do not know how much they borrowed but the date of their loan on 3rd October 2023 was the same day as John Nelms announced that Sandeman Properties Limited who hold the title deeds of Dens Park was now back in the ownership of Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited.
Some media organisations such as the BBC wrongly stated that Dens Park was now back in the ownership of Dundee Football Club which was wrong.
Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited have been the holding company for Sandeman Properties Limited since 3rd October 2023.
In my opinion Dundee FC supporters should be very concerned if the directors of Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited do not repay their loan from Soho Green secured over the 29.7 acres site at the Camperdown Retail Park plus the firmer entrance of the NCR Camperdown factory which was taken out on 22 November 2022 at interest rates of between 0.75% and 2% per month which equates to between 9% and 24% per annum.
If the directors of Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited fail to repay this loan by the due date then the whole thing could collapse like a ‘pack of cards’.
There might be a Dundee Football Club Limited but they will have nowhere to play their home games as Dens Park will be owned by Soho Green who would likely sell the stadium to the highest bidder.
In my opinion the Dundee FC supporters should waken up and do their own homework.
This is why a ‘rainy day’ fund should have been set up after FPS acquired a majority shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited in case things went wrong and the Yanks got fed up bank rolling Dundee Football Club year after year with no likelihood of them seeing a return on their ever increasing huge outlay.
They cannot even take a dividend on their shares as they cannot borrow money from their bank as the club has no borrowing facilities.

[eric_sinclair]

The £4.1 million debt (£4.8 million at the end of May 2023):is listed in the Dundee Football Club Limited annual accounts.
If the Yanks walk away Dundee Football Cub Limited will still have the £4.8 million listed in their annual accounts for the year ending 31st May 2023.
Tim Keyes (FPS) will have to write off his loans via FPS and Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited given to Dundee Football Club Limited plus that added problem of who is going to repay the loan taken out by the latest directors of Sandeman Properties Limited (Tim Keyes and John Nelms) secured over Dens Park with Soho Green.
The interest rates payable to Soho Green payable for this loan is between 0.95% and 2% per month which equates to between 11.40% and 24% per annum plus the original amount of the loan.

So the accounts for end of may 24 will show a lesser debt due to the share increase in April yes?
As for the loan how much was it for and for how long?
It is obviously getting paid so dens is at the moment owned by sandman properties.
So in effect at the moment the club as in Dundee fc have no debt due?
Tim Keyes is without doubt the best owner we have had and put the most cash in.
Happy we that.

[islaydarkblue]

Dixon was closing the doors, if Dens had been sold where would we play

The Marrs purchased Dixon’s shareholding and at the same they had to offer to purchased the shares held by all the Dundee Football Club Limited minority shareholders, some of whom took up their offer.
In my opinion if the Marrs had renewed Jocky Scott’s contract as manager we would have never incurred debts of £22 million signing players on huge annual salaries who were unlikely to be sold thanks to the Bosman rules.
I cannot exactly remember the annual wages and salaries to total income ratio back in the Bonetti ere but it would have been well in excess of 100%.

[eric_sinclair]

Just curious and not a dig Islay but why did you not attend games for 27 years?

[islaydarkblue]

Just curious and not a dig Islay but why did you not attend games for 27 years?

I played golf at Downfield GC on a Saturday afternoon and then we moved to live on Islay.

[islaydarkblue]

So the accounts for end of may 24 will show a lesser debt due to the share increase in April yes?
As for the loan how much was it for and for how long?
It is obviously getting paid so dens is at the moment owned by sandman properties.
So in effect at the moment the club as in Dundee fc have no debt due?
Tim Keyes is without doubt the best owner we have had and put the most cash in.
Happy we that.

I enclose the Dundee Football Club Limited Filing History from the Companies House website. https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history
I suggest that you study and click on the latest annual accounts and share transaction which took place on 26th April 2024 and was posted on the Companies House website on 29th April 2024.
You should also carefully read the notes in the annual accounts for the year ending 31st May 2023 which states that accounts for the next two financial years will be similar ending 31st May 2024 and 31st May 2025 followed by an improvement after that. See Note 3 - Going Concern.
This means that the directors of Dundee Football Club expect to make a loss of £2.8 million for each of these two financial years which will increase the debt by the same corresponding amounts of £2.8 million per year.
This means that John Nelms who signed the accounts is still thinking that his new stadium at Campy Nou will be built and ready for use in August 2025 which will improve the Dundee Football Club Limited annual accounts for the year ending 31st May 2026.
I also suggest that you look at the Soho Green, Isle of Man website where it explains how loans they have granted are repaid including the usual timescales.