Another truth bomb

[BCram]

When was that then as they've always died younger, had less opportunity and been ****ed over.

Surviving shouldn't be an ambition.

Are you saying you'd prefer education only to be available to those that can pay for it themselves directly?

Agree with your first comment. The point is that they are still in this situation and it needs more than just giving help,imo.

Think surviving should be the ambition for everyone.

Completely disagree with your third comment.

[Deebunked]

Agree with your first comment. The point is that they are still in this situation and it needs more than just giving help,imo.

Think surviving should be the ambition for everyone.

Completely disagree with your third comment.

You're not making any sense. On one hand you seemed to be saying it was wrong that "other people" indirectly paid for education to be free. Now you're saying you disagree only that can afford it directly can have it. Which is it?

I know from experience that the education itself being free isn't handing anyone anything. It's simply making the opportunity a bit more possible. The poor still have to make sacrifices to get through it, or put in a much bigger amount of effort. Fees on top would make it largely impossible.

You see that in England where the ratio for the poorest kids going to Uni is approx half of the less poor and that widens to about a third for the top universities. The odds are stacked against poorer kids.

[BCram]

You're not making any sense. On one hand you seemed to be saying it was wrong that "other people" indirectly paid for education to be free. Now you're saying you disagree only that can afford it directly can have it. Which is it?

I know from experience that the education itself being free isn't handing anyone anything. It's simply making the opportunity a bit more possible. The poor still have to make sacrifices to get through it, or put in a much bigger amount of effort. Fees on top would make it largely impossible.

You see that in England where the ratio for the poorest kids going to Uni is approx half of the less poor and that widens to about a third for the top universities. The odds are stacked against poorer kids.

Hi Deebunked. Spent a long time trying to answer your questions. Trying to be precise. I thought my answers showed that we need a different approach because we do not seem to be making things better.

I think I should have placed more emphasis on the words " it needs more than just GIVING help, imo. We've been trying to close the attainment gap for decades, Tony Blair, Education Education Education, giving everyone the chance to go to University, Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland when she was responsible for Education and Alex Salmond's pledge the Scottish universities would not charge fees.
I think the idea that education is an important way to escape poverty is not believed by the very people who we think education would help. I include you , me, Tony Blair, Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond in that "we".
If what we are doing isn't improving things, why should we think that carrying on with the same approach will improve things?

I went to university in the days where you received a grant based on your parents income. There were different and distinct options for tertiary education and apprenticeships and technical colleges and further education establishments gave opportunity to those whose school experience had not been successful in terms of their academic achievement.

I am not waging some class war against the poor. I just said that I agreed with TheAuld Yin's comment.

[Deeranged]

Your "f*ck it someone else is paying" attitude is exactly why this country is f*cked.

It's not about '**** it somebody else is paying', I'm paying but am happy that anyone can achieve a good education or walk into a doctor's surgery with a medical problem without needing to prove they have £000 available. Education and health care are not things that should be restricted only to the privileged and they should be free at the point of use.

[Deeranged]

Most ridiculous post I have ever read on this board

100%, would love to see where that attitude is displayed in any post on here.

[Deebunked]

Hi Deebunked. Spent a long time trying to answer your questions. Trying to be precise. I thought my answers showed that we need a different approach because we do not seem to be making things better.

I think I should have placed more emphasis on the words " it needs more than just GIVING help, imo. We've been trying to close the attainment gap ofor decades, Tony Blair, Education Education Education, giving everyone the chance to go to University, Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland when she was responsible for Education and Alex Salmond's pledge the Scottish universities would not charge fees.
I think the idea that education is an important way to escape poverty is not believed by the very people who we think education would help. I include you , me, Tony Blair, Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond in that "we".
If what we are doing isn't improving things, why should we think that carrying on with the same approach will improve things?

I went to university in the days where you received a grant based on your parents income. There were different and distinct options for tertiary education and apprenticeships and technical colleges and further education establishments gave opportunity to those whose school experience had not been successful in terms of their academic achievement.

I am not waging some class war against the poor. I just said that I agreed with TheAuld Yin's comment.

All of those tertiary education still options exist today.

For me the attainment gap is not about the levels or options of education available but the social security system which is rewarding people to do nothing at all and low wages in the workplace which disincentivise some from working at all.

The country is also being robbed blind by all kinds of chancers both foreign and domestic and doesn't raise income well from the behemoth companies that can afford to play the system with clever financial people in their team.

We could start by really closing our borders to illegal immigration and making immigration for those who will contribute well easier.

The problem with that idea is the loony left won't allow the former and the really right won't allow the latter.

Meanwhile Romanians will continue to send our social security cash back to thier homeland as a free gift.

[Piscean]

Immigration is easily the biggest issue today, Sweden needs ti get the army out to control migrant gangs , Ireland is sinking under swarms of migrants, France can't handle anymore so they seem content to let them leave freely on boats to get here. The right are winning all over Europe now, the people have had enough of mass immigration. Christ knows what this country will look like in ten years time. Even the blind left must see this.
Those politicians must be on a pretty penny to allow and encourage this to happen.
Diversity is one thing, although no one asked for it. FORCED diversity is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

[Mainlanddee]

[QUOTE=Piscean;40524729]Immigration is easily the biggest issue today, Sweden needs ti get the army out to control migrant gangs , Ireland is sinking under swarms of migrants, France can't handle anymore so they seem content to let them leave freely on boats to get here. The right are winning all over Europe now, the people have had enough of mass immigration. Christ knows what this country will look like in ten years time. Even the blind left must see this.
Those politicians must be on a pretty penny to allow and encourage this to happen.
Diversity is one thing, although no one asked for it. FORCED diversity is a catastrophe waiting to

I agree immigration and illegal immigration is a huge issue for citizens of most European countries and especially for us in the UK, illegal immigration is a problem , but we are letting in 1.2 million legal immigrants a year , to work in our poorly paid care sector, and we have a huge gig economy to staff as well , it's big business that want cheap labour that is fueling this crisis, even Nigel farage is calling for better pay for ordinary workers , foʻr me it's a sad day when the far right are the ones calling for better pay and conditions for workers , whether it's a labour or tory government, nothing will change the immigration crisis as long as big business wants cheap labour , insecure jobs , zero hour contracts etc

[noahrab]

It's not about '**** it somebody else is paying', I'm paying but am happy that anyone can achieve a good education or walk into a doctor's surgery with a medical problem without needing to prove they have £000 available. Education and health care are not things that should be restricted only to the privileged and they should be free at the point of use.

So millionaires should get benefits?

[Deeranged]

So millionaires should get benefits?

You can show me where I've written that of course?