O/T:- Trump

[drillerpie]

At some point, the war in Ukraine has to end. The best way for it to end is with both sides agreeing to a deal that settles the matter as peacefully as possible, as soon as possible. I believe Trump is more inclined to pursue this approach than Biden, who seems happy for the war to continue indefinitely.

Besides supporting the military effort, there are obvious questions to be asked about funnelling billions of dollars into one of the most corrupt nations in Europe.

Trump is also more likely to ensure the integrity of the southern border and stop illegal immigration.

Please note: pursuing peaceful resolutions to war and stopping illegal immigration aren't "far-right" ideas.

And once again for the record, before I get called this or that, I'm not a Trump supporter.

Yes I agree that it has to end and it will end via some kind of treaty. My points weren't really contesting that. I feel like you've hit me with a lot of generic talking points without addressing my questions.

[slack_pie]

Yes I agree that it has to end and it will end via some kind of treaty. My points weren't really contesting that. I feel like you've hit me with a lot of generic talking points without addressing my questions.

I'm not hitting you with anything. Besides, what's wrong with generic talking points? This is a football message board, not an actual meeting between political and diplomatic experts.

I've shared my views and the reasons for them. There's obviously no easy way out of the conflict, and there are downsides to appeasing Russian aggression just as there are downsides to funding and escalating a war of attrition against a hostile nuclear superpower. That said, I think the fastest and least violent way out is for both sides to come to an agreement as quickly as possible.

[M0ufMk3]

At some point, the war in Ukraine has to end. The best way for it to end is with both sides agreeing to a deal that settles the matter as peacefully as possible, as soon as possible. I believe Trump is more inclined to pursue this approach than Biden, who seems happy for the war to continue indefinitely.

Besides supporting the military effort, there are obvious questions to be asked about funnelling billions of dollars into one of the most corrupt nations in Europe.

Trump is also more likely to ensure the integrity of the southern border and stop illegal immigration.

Please note: pursuing peaceful resolutions to war and stopping illegal immigration aren't "far-right" ideas.

And once again for the record, before I get called this or that, I'm not a Trump supporter.

Trump's frequent announcements on foreign policy basically represent an isolationist stance. His other pronouncements are basically cosying up to the alt right which he believes will grant him power. [The centre - there is no mainstream left in America, Biden would almost be a conservative in the UK, albeit a moderate - would never countenance a misogynist braggart.]

However, to the point of backing out of Ukraine, the question is where then will Putin stop. He is an imperialist at heart (I can already hear the right wondering "well, what is wrong with that"), who uses expansion conveniently to cover up the gangster state he has grown, a sort of Peaky Blinders +. Next stop will be Finland, then possibly the former Soviet states and the West needs an America which is actively engaged in the world. Whilst Russia is the immediate existential threat, China is the underlying long term problem (same thing we need an America actively engaged) but operates with more intelligence and has weaponised Western 'five minutes of fame' culture along with its addiction to social media and reasonably priced serviceable gadgets.

[andy6025]

I’d really like to see some back of the napkin math that shows that on some planet it’s a logical move for Putin to wake up one day and say, “I think I’ll role the dice on taking over and attempting to occupy the fast declining economic entity that is now Europe.”

I mean, American is the military and economic powerhouse of the world, and yet it cost them trillions to invade and occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, in which they ultimately lost the latter and effectively handed the former over to become a proxy of Iran.

But supposedly a country with a GDP smaller than that of Italy is going to have better luck taking on the entire west to indefinitely occupy all (or most?) of Europe because, u know… daddy needs a new empire!

[BigFatPie]

The Ukraine peace negotiations should be very short;

UKR: Hello Russia, can you please F off out of our country?

RUS: OK.

I’d love to hear an alternative end to this that doesn’t reward Russia’s aggression. I’m also not sure why it needs the help of Trump or anyone else to facilitate this.

I’m still not sure what it is about Trump being Putin’s puppet that people don’t get.

[andy6025]

Negotiations… I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

[drillerpie]

I'm not hitting you with anything. Besides, what's wrong with generic talking points? This is a football message board, not an actual meeting between political and diplomatic experts.

Yeah sure you're not under any obligation at all, obviously.

[LincsPie]

I’d really like to see some back of the napkin math that shows that on some planet it’s a logical move for Putin to wake up one day and say, “I think I’ll role the dice on taking over and attempting to occupy the fast declining economic entity that is now Europe.”

.........

But supposedly a country with a GDP smaller than that of Italy is going to have better luck taking on the entire west to indefinitely occupy all (or most?) of Europe because, u know… daddy needs a new empire!

The thing is Putin (or any other despot/dictator/autocrat/politician) tend not to act logically when it comes to wielding power.

And yes he wants to restore the former Soviet Union and create a buffer zone of Russian friendly states between the west and Russia.

[andy6025]

The thing is Putin (or any other despot/dictator/autocrat/politician) tend not to act logically when it comes to wielding power.

And yes he wants to restore the former Soviet Union and create a buffer zone of Russian friendly states between the west and Russia.

Yeah, Putin strikes me as a highly impulsive guy too. He’s also a staunch supporter of communism.

[maddogslater]

The Ukraine peace negotiations should be very short;

UKR: Hello Russia, can you please F off out of our country?

RUS: OK.

I’d love to hear an alternative end to this that doesn’t reward Russia’s aggression. I’m also not sure why it needs the help of Trump or anyone else to facilitate this.

I’m still not sure what it is about Trump being Putin’s puppet that people don’t get.

Funny how much you hate the far right unless they're corrupt neo nazis