Official Nelmsy Campus Countdown

[BCram]

s with sadness and regret that we announce today that after four years of involvement we shall be putting our stake in Dunfermline Athletic Football Club up for sale. Recent events at the club have greatly contributed to this decision being made now.

A look back over the past few years may be appropriate:

We made our first investment into the Club in August 2020, in the middle of the pandemic and at a time when there was massive uncertainty in the world, let alone in the world of football with games behind closed doors becoming the norm. We did this to show the trust and commitment we felt towards the club and which had developed from everyone we had dealt with at the club. Many considered us foolish at the time for doing so. By the same token it was a great coup for the club to have secured investment in such an uncertain environment.

One of the topics back then and which had been discussed for years already and had never come to fruition due to the lack of resources was the idea of having a dedicated club training facility. Somewhere where the Pars Foundation, at a later day a DAFC Academy and first team professionals could train, rub shoulders and be together. Creating a home, a place where a unique DAFC identity could be felt and which would in addition help attract talented players to the club in the future. This is a longer term success factor and it takes time, but you need to build these foundations to gradually improve, step by step, your chances of success as a club. We have succeeded in this ambition with the facilities at Rosyth which we funded – in addition freeing up generous grants from the SFA and Fife Council.

We were encouraged by many around the club to make the investment into a dedicated DAFC Academy. Again, something that costs money and which is an investment into the future of the club. At the DAFC Academy local talented boys can find the way to develop their abilities and at the same time do so at their home club they love and are so passionate about. The Academy is now up and running and players in the first team squad have come up through the ranks of the academy. Everyone in the DAFC community was delighted to see these local and loyal players making it to the top. Songs were sung and chants adapted to appreciate their achievements.

We all remember well the 2021-22 season where after a long series of poor results we had to endure relegation to League One. Already at that time we saw how even if you put time, effort and money into this club it is only current results which matter which makes it nearly impossible to execute a long-term, sustainable strategy. Unfortunately, the ensuing turmoil at the club also led to resignations by hard working and passionate people who had put in more hours of work into the club than anyone could imagine and above any normal call of duty.

The club relies on important volunteers for much of what goes on in and around the club. In this day and age of modern football the day-to-day oversight, however, has to be handled by dedicated full time management, even if this costs money. We realised this and made the further investment necessary into attracting top class professionals into important leadership roles making the transition from a volunteer led organisation to one professionally run. Again, structural work and longer term planning for the future requires all of these building blocks to be put into place one by one in a continuous effort to get the club back to a position where we all feel it belongs.

After the shock of the relegation which the club had to endure and the depth of despair everyone around the club felt at the time, the club famously, under the stewardship of a new young management team, bounced back to the Championship in only one season, with our goalkeeper breaking historic records for the number of clean sheets in one season.

The following season was an achievement in itself in that we consolidated our position in the Championship despite probably the most injuries sustained at the club in one season in living memory. The financial impact of relegation one year and injuries at a massive level the next was obviously felt in the running costs at the club, but when you have a longer term plan these things happen and need to be weathered, which we did.

Nevertheless we have felt for a while now, probably since the middle of last season, that long term planning and putting in place the building blocks for future success is not what many are looking for. Many seem to prefer an investor who has deep pockets to throw at the first team and try for the best over and over again each season. We said from the start that we are not this kind of investor and therefore have detected an increasing disappointment in our approach. Perhaps, therefore, we are not the right kind of investor in the eyes of many at the club.

This season was the year in which we wanted to consolidate the experience in the squad, add young, motivated players from our own youth development and make a few additional key signings. The aim has always been to get to 44 points as soon as possible. After achieving this, further aims may be considered. This does not represent a lack of ambition, as many seem to believe, but the wish to build the squad in a sustainable fashion and to add strength as and when required. Success comes from being able to plan and build over time, even if there are hiccups along the way. Rushing things, or simply spending more money is not a sustainable model and we have not stood for this from the start. If much more is expected this itself puts additional pressure on the management and the squad with each game not won. The knee-jerk reaction to call for more spending is not a model we stand for.

If a management team which was the envy of the league and which got us out of League One in the shortest possible time is now not considered adequate after an average season marred by injuries and a series of poor results and only two games into the current season, something is wrong. Do we really believe that sacking the current manager and signing new players as is now being called for is the right solution to a poor run of results? These impatient voices could already be heard last season in which, as we said, the management team got us through a competitive league with the well-known massive injury problems.We believe the relegation season has taught us that sacking a manager and adding expensive players is not always the best solution. Stability and trust and gradual strengthening are the key success factors. The level of current frustration is creating an environment in which longer term planning is not possible and is also not in keeping with our ethos of “Living True Sportsmanship”

We are not so naive as not to realise that football is emotional. That is why we love it so much. But the speed with which last year’s heroes become this year’s discards , last year’s cleverness becomes this year’s inability is difficult for us to understand and, for us, makes our strategy of longer-term planning and building nearly impossible.

Over the coming weeks we and the other directors of the club shall be having discussions on the sale of our stake with some of the many parties who have approached us already over the past years and, of course, in coordination with PUCIC who are, as of now, still the majority owners of your club. We have every reason to believe that there will be no shortage of interest in the club.

In the meantime, of course all of us on the board have recognised that the current squad needs to be strengthened in several areas for reasons of both quality and depth. We are more than aware of this. At a board meeting held on Monday 12 August, resources have been made available to the management team to make sensible additions both by way of signings and by way of the now gradually active loan market. We will continue to work hard with the rest of the board and the management team to make sure we do well this season.

To finish let us reiterate again that we have made many new friends here in Dunfermline, many have welcomed us and appreciated the effort we have made and we sincerely hope to continue these friendships into the future. There are absolutely no “sour grapes” or similar in our decision to sell our stake in the club. Perhaps it is just the realisation that the realities of Scottish football are as they are and that we may not be the right investment group for your club.

DAFC Fussball GmbH
August 2024
Seems to me to sum up Scottish football very well.

[eric_sinclair]

Its good that we have owners who have stuck around longer than those at dunfermline.I really like our manager at the moment and he always speaks with passion about our club and that is very important as he lives here and obviously knows the club before working here.If he sees a future with our current owners and yet again they seem to be backing him that will do for me.The camperdown project is a strange one for me as there seems so many obstacles yet the owners have obviously invested cash in the project.I think we are in a good place at the moment,good manager,good squad,saleable assets and new pitch laid,the campy thing will no doubt reach a conclusion at some point but it does not seem to effect the club today.If the doc is happy the way the club is being run,he nae doubt knows more than anyone on the tinternet.

[islaydarkblue]

The Camperdown project happened as a result of the joint venture originally between DBPHL, Dundee United and Dundee City Council to build a large sports centre and training pitches at Caird Park costing a rumoured £30 million.
The Dabs dropped out leaving the Directors of DBPHL and Dundee City Council to go it alone.
The leader of the Scottish Greens Maggie Chapman who is now Green list MSP organised a protest about several trees being chopped down to allow this sports centre to be built.
Dundee City Council ran out of money and in June 2016 the Caird Park project was scrapped.
I heard through the grapevine that Dundee City Council officials played their ‘get out of jail card’ and tipped off the directors of DBPHL that the 29.7 acres site at the former NCR Camperdown grounds was being advertised for sale.
The Dundee City Council officials must have assumed that the directors of DBPHL would apply for planning permission to build a new large sports centre with training pitches not a new stadium development.

[islaydarkblue]

Planning in principal "on steroids"......seems Nelmsy needs Mair drugs.

Planning dept busy with other things, transport Scotland not getting answers to questions

Meanwhile DAFC owners are walking away.

Not saying it's likely here but it's a possibility as is the possibility of moving to tannadice.

Not one DFC organisation seems to be asking questions.

Ssssh for indy

Ssssh for campy ?

I have been having a rest from posting on Mad until I saw your post late last night.
The Dee4life directors have tried to ask John Nelms questions but Nelms informed them via one of his message boys who is also a member of Dee4life at the Dee4life AGM in November 2023 that the Dee4life directors were not welcome in the club’s premises at Gardyne.
I have subsequently read that John Nelms’s door at Gardyne is always open to the DSA.
I can only assume that this is because the DSA committee members will not ask awkward questions to John Nelms otherwise they will also not be welcome at Gardyne.
It my opinion being dependent on Tim Keyes to bankroll Dundee Football Club is a recipe for disaster which could lead to Admin 3 if Tim Keyes decides to end this financing of Dundee Football Club.

[islaydarkblue]

Planning in principal "on steroids"......seems Nelmsy needs Mair drugs.

Planning dept busy with other things, transport Scotland not getting answers to questions

Meanwhile DAFC owners are walking away.

Not saying it's likely here but it's a possibility as is the possibility of moving to tannadice.

Not one DFC organisation seems to be asking questions.

Ssssh for indy

Ssssh for campy ?

I will reply to your list of concerns.
1. Planning Permission in Principle is applying for little more than outline planning permission
£7,800 for the PPIP is cheap. An application for full planning permission would cost a lot more.
About ten years ago I have seen planning applications for full planning permission for a large development on the Argyll and Bute Council website costing upwards of £20,000.
This could be for warehouses to store scotch whisky not a large new stadium development.
2. Using the full planning permission for the Eden Project is in my opinion a lame excuse by John Nelms.
He should have had his full planning application ready to be submitted to Dundee City Council Planning Department shortly after their first Pre Application Notice (PAN) meeting in September 2017 not over six years later in early 2024.
Transport Scotland would have got their answers if they had read the posts on his forum and DBF about the traffic congestion at Myrekirk roundabout and only one underpass close to the top of Buttars loan to allow thousands of spectators who have parked their cars on the opposite side of the A90 Kingsway bypass of Dundee to walk to their cars after the end of the game at new stadium at Campy Nou.
Transport Scotland should use a drone to study the queues of traffic every day throughout the day at the Myrekirk roundabout to get their information.
4. The DAFC owners appear to have originally planned to be there for the long term using their football academy to put a decent Dunfermline FC team on the pitch. However Dunfermline supporters like the supporters of most football clubs want a quick fix to bring success.
In my opinion we should have stuck with Barry Smith as manager especially as the Dundee Football Club directors were not expecting us to be promoted to the Premier League during the Club 12 season and they had drawn up their budgets to play in the Championship during the 2012-13 season.
5. The A shares can block a move to Tannadice and John Nelms knows the powers available to be used thanks to the entrenched rights of the A shares which I can prove.
6. I have answered that question in a separate post.
7. The 2024 General Election has fortunately scuppered Independence for Scotland with the latest GERS figures proving that an Independent Scotland would be far poorer than it is at present.
An extra £2,400 being allocated for every person in Scotland compared to the rest of England and Wales proves this.
8. More delaying tactics by Nelms who is blaming the Eden Project and Transport Scotland for the delay.
If DBPHL’s consultants had provided the information requested by Transport Scotland from the outset things would have moved quicker.
I know that the air quality measurements on Strathmartine Road and the Kingsway are flawed.
The air quality measurements on Strathmartine Road were taken on the wrong side of Strathmartine Road to make them look better than they really are whilst the air quality measurements were not taken close to the Myrekirk roundabout where the traffic is queuing to get through the traffic lights in both directions for most of the day on a daily basis.
Finally. At a Dee4life members meeting held online on Monday 18th March 2024 a Dee4life member in the building trade stated that the indicative date of 12th August 2024 for the DBPHL PPIP application to be discussed by the members of the Dundee City Council Planning Committee was unlikely to happen.
From his experience it was more likely that the meeting would take place in December 2024.

[Returnofrros]

I will reply to your list of concerns.
1. Planning Permission in Principle is applying for little more than outline planning permission
£7,800 for the PPIP is cheap. An application for full planning permission would cost a lot more.
About ten years ago I have seen planning applications for full planning permission for a large development on the Argyll and Bute Council website costing upwards of £20,000.
This could be for warehouses to store scotch whisky not a large new stadium development.
2. Using the full planning permission for the Eden Project is in my opinion a lame excuse by John Nelms.
He should have had his full planning application ready to be submitted to Dundee City Council Planning Department shortly after their first Pre Application Notice (PAN) meeting in September 2017 not over six years later in early 2024.
Transport Scotland would have got their answers if they had read the posts on his forum and DBF about the traffic congestion at Myrekirk roundabout and only one underpass close to the top of Buttars loan to allow thousands of spectators who have parked their cars on the opposite side of the A90 Kingsway bypass of Dundee to walk to their cars after the end of the game at new stadium at Campy Nou.
Transport Scotland should use a drone to study the queues of traffic every day throughout the day at the Myrekirk roundabout to get their information.
4. The DAFC owners appear to have originally planned to be there for the long term using their football academy to put a decent Dunfermline FC team on the pitch. However Dunfermline supporters like the supporters of most football clubs want a quick fix to bring success.
In my opinion we should have stuck with Barry Smith as manager especially as the Dundee Football Club directors were not expecting us to be promoted to the Premier League during the Club 12 season and they had drawn up their budgets to play in the Championship during the 2012-13 season.
5. The A shares can block a move to Tannadice and John Nelms knows the powers available to be used thanks to the entrenched rights of the A shares which I can prove.
6. I have answered that question in a separate post.
7. The 2024 General Election has fortunately scuppered Independence for Scotland with the latest GERS figures proving that an Independent Scotland would be far poorer than it is at present.
An extra £2,400 being allocated for every person in Scotland compared to the rest of England and Wales proves this.
8. More delaying tactics by Nelms who is blaming the Eden Project and Transport Scotland for the delay.
If DBPHL’s consultants had provided the information requested by Transport Scotland from the outset things would have moved quicker.
I know that the air quality measurements on Strathmartine Road and the Kingsway are flawed.
The air quality measurements on Strathmartine Road were taken on the wrong side of Strathmartine Road to make them look better than they really are whilst the air quality measurements were not taken close to the Myrekirk roundabout where the traffic is queuing to get through the traffic lights in both directions for most of the day on a daily basis.
Finally. At a Dee4life members meeting held online on Monday 18th March 2024 a Dee4life member in the building trade stated that the indicative date of 12th August 2024 for the DBPHL PPIP application to be discussed by the members of the Dundee City Council Planning Committee was unlikely to happen.
From his experience it was more likely that the meeting would take place in December 2024.

You know anything about getting served notice of eviction from Gardyne Islay?

And one of the Gardyne ( directors I think ) resigning in protest at DFC being allowed to stay.

The worry for me is planning for the stadium ain't a Shu in as some would have us believe

Despite nelms claiming all the i s dotted and T s crossed.....they obviously ain't

Funding still not been disclosed really.

And what will be ongoing cost to DFC if the stadium is built

So many important questions.

[BCram]

Welcome back Islay!

[BCram]

DAFC report seemed to me to be very interesting. It showed that there is a long term strategy, where training and investing in young players is a way forward. Only fly in that ointment is the short term attitude of DAFC supporters who want managers sacked, players bought and revolution every transfer window, not quite what they said but my take from it.

Very very worrying if the Gardyne approach is under threat, seems odd that having made such a fuss about the quality of the facilities that Riverside, with a purpose built facility is now our plan?

Can see that removing the need for part of Camperdown Park to be included in the new stadium scheme removes a problem.

[islaydarkblue]

You know anything about getting served notice of eviction from Gardyne Islay?

And one of the Gardyne ( directors I think ) resigning in protest at DFC being allowed to stay.

The worry for me is planning for the stadium ain't a Shu in as some would have us believe

Despite nelms claiming all the i s dotted and T s crossed.....they obviously ain't

Funding still not been disclosed really.

And what will be ongoing cost to DFC if the stadium is built

So many important questions.

I know nothing about DFC getting evicted from Gardyne apart from what I have read on the forums.
When it was announced in June 2022 that Dundee Football Club including Dee Promotions and the Dundee FC Community Trust were moving ‘lock, stock and barrel’ to Gardyne the lease was for three years.
This would have taken their lease up to June 2025 which is just before Nelmsy’s new stadium would be built and ready for use in time for the opening game of the 2025-26 season.
I think that it would be one of the Dundee and Angus College board of governors who if correct has resigned in protest at DFC being allowed to stay.
Perhaps this is why Tim Keyes was in Dundee to smooth things over with the Dundee and Angus College board of governors.
Greg Fenton is a former student at Dundee and Angus College and they might not be happy at their former student suddenly leaving as General Manager of DFC and Chief Executive of the Dundee FC Community Trust.
There have been some ‘cracking posts’ on the DBF about the delay of the PPIP.
One poster blamed me whilst another poster does not know which roads throughout Scotland Transport Scotland are responsible for.
This poster asked why Transport Scotland did not express concerns about M & S moving to the Gallagher Retail Park with the problems accessing and exiting the Gallagher Retail Park car park.
Transport Scotland are responsible for the trunk road network throughout Scotland which includes the A90 Kingsway bypass of Dundee while the management of Dundee City Council and the Dundee City Councillors are responsible for the rest of the road network within the Dundee City Council boundaries.
Therefore the Dundee City Councillors were responsible for granting M & S planning permission to open a large retail unit in the Gallagher Retail Park. If they had done their homework these councillors should have been aware that there had previously been major problems accessing and exiting the Gallagher Retail Park car park during holiday periods such as when the sales start after Christmas.
Sadly these Dundee City councillors have been promoted to their level of incompetence.
Planning was never going to be a shoo in for the new stadium development at Campy Nou if the Transport Scotland bosses did their job properly.
However the new Calmac Ferries computer system was purchased from Italy and cost the Scottish Government £18 million despite it not being fit for purpose, I have no faith in the Transport Scotland bosses to do things correctly.
I do not believe a word Nelms says. Mind you he says precious little and what he says has to be dragged out of him.
Nelms told the DSA committee members at the meeting to set the season ticket prices for the 2024-25 season that the season ticket prices were increasing by 5%. They believed him.
However the DSA committee members did not realise until after the end of the meeting that Nelms had compared the full 2023-24 season ticket price against the super early bird season ticket price for the 2024-25 season to justify his 5% increase.
In fact taking ‘like for like’ the season ticket price increase was 19%.
It is not difficult to quickly work out the percentage price increase if the DSA committee members had done their homework before entering their meeting with Nelms.
Interestingly the Dee4life directors were not invited to attend this meeting with Nelms as they are effectively banned from Gardyne.
Where is the funding for the reputed £50 million cost of the new stadium (2022 prices) going to come from if the directors of DBPHL have borrowed money from the Isle of Man based financial company Soho Green on 24th November 2022 secured over the 29.7 acres site at the Camperdown Retail Park.
In September 2022 we were told that any shortfall in the funding for the new stadium development at Campy Nou could easily be obtained from financial companies in the City of London.
If that is correct then why did the DBPHL directors borrow money from Soho Green based in the Isle of Man at interest rates of between 0.75% and 2% per month which equates to between 9% and 24% per annum.
In my opinion Dundee Football Club will be in a worse position financially than at present.
They will not receive the profits from hospitality in the restaurants at the new stadium as the profits will have to be used by the owner of the new stadium to repay the cost of the loans to fund the cost of building the new stadium.
It is likely that DFC will have a similar financial set up as they had when John Bennett held the title deeds of Dens Park.
DFC will have a long term lease paying an annual rent to the owners of the new stadium whilst being responsible for the cost of any repairs and improvements to the new stadium.
.

[islaydarkblue]

DAFC report seemed to me to be very interesting. It showed that there is a long term strategy, where training and investing in young players is a way forward. Only fly in that ointment is the short term attitude of DAFC supporters who want managers sacked, players bought and revolution every transfer window, not quite what they said but my take from it.

Very very worrying if the Gardyne approach is under threat, seems odd that having made such a fuss about the quality of the facilities that Riverside, with a purpose built facility is now our plan?

Can see that removing the need for part of Camperdown Park to be included in the new stadium scheme removes a problem.

This afternoon I heard a rumour that the owners of DAFC have put their shareholding up for sale as money they have put into DAFC cannot be accounted for.
Are you aware that Aberdeen FC had a youth academy in Gardyne up to 2016/17 for young players in the Dundee area which they then closed down.
It is possible that the Dundee and Angus College bosses were looking to replace this loss of income and eventually persuaded DFC to rent their office suite at Gardyne.
It would be interesting to know what Greg Fenton’s role was in this with him being a Dundee and Angus College graduate.
The main problem with the new stadium development is the traffic issues on the A90 Kingsway such as entering and accessing the stadium car parks before and after the end of each game.
The traffic lights at the Myrekirk roundabout and only one underpass close to the new stadium to allow supporters to reach their cars parked in the streets on the opposite side of the Kingsway after the end of every game. This underpass is often flooded during the autumn and winter period.