Reform UK Party Conference

[kettering_baggie]

If the EU had made a few concessions to David Cameron, Brexit may well have not have happened.

[mickd1961]

If the EU had made a few concessions to David Cameron, Brexit may well have not have happened.

I’ve said that for years Kets.

[baggieal]

If the EU had made a few concessions to David Cameron, Brexit may well have not have happened.

Let’s be truthful - Brexit would not have happened if bigoted people mainly the elderly had not been sucked into the immigration mantra. EU immigration was never the issue but many were too thick to distinguish between EU and non EU which was the problem and still is.

Most likely though people who hated the Tories and voted Labour are moaning like f uck now at Starmer and the gang!

[regis80]

I can only speak in regards to what my dad said to me Regis, those were his feelings, especially in regards to Blair.

I do agree with you that things are not now showing the same signs in regards to a USE though.

Do you not think though that this is due to the rise of the Right across many Eu countries and the changing political landscape since Merkel disappeared?

If you think back to the Eu of 2015 when Cameron tried to get us some concessions and the Eu during and just post Brexit, the Eu thing seems to be a lot more under pressure and less confident of itself than it was in the 2010’s?

I’m miles away from being any sort of sage on political matters, others on here are better qualified I think and I enjoy listening to those other people more these days.

Yourself, 123 and Omeg for example.

I was too dogmatic in pushing Brexit.

In truth, all sides including the Eu became too entrenched in their positions rather than looking for tenable solutions that would have served us all a lot better.

Agree Mick. I think Cameron trying to negotiate that time in hindsight wasn’t the best timing as compared to now when there’s more right wing leaning politics spreading in europe. Had that attempt been now, maybe just maybe they would have made some changes.

[regis80]

Let’s be truthful - Brexit would not have happened if bigoted people mainly the elderly had not been sucked into the immigration mantra. EU immigration was never the issue but many were too thick to distinguish between EU and non EU which was the problem and still is.

Most likely though people who hated the Tories and voted Labour are moaning like f uck now at Starmer and the gang!

is it true that MPs get winter fuel allowance? If so, wtf can’t labour abolish this? In it together and all that bob hullox. You’d think this is the least they’d do especially when opposition party are stirring it up - it would almost be a way of hitting them back. Will it happen? f ck no.

[regis80]

So can all MPs get their energy bills paid for?

No – this is a distortion of a policy just for MPs who have to have two residences for their work.
Firstly, only MPs with constituencies outside of London are apply to claim any sort of utility bills back.
Secondly, they can only do so on one of the properties which they use, either the London one – which is required so they can be close to parliament – or their constituency home.

These costs include rental payments, utilities (gas, electricity, other fuel and water), council tax, round rent and service charges.
Buildings insurance, routine security measures, a landline telephone, a broadband connection and usage charges for that one property are all included, too.
And thirdly, any claims for utility bills are not capped at £3,400. There is actually no upper limit.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp...0b3a5341b02d1/

[Albionic68]

For anyone with an interest regarding who claims what re heating etc there's a couple of sites you can access in the link below courtesy of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA)......

https://www.theipsa.org.uk/freedom-o.../rfi-202208-12

...... and here's a link which goes to MP staffing costs......

https://www.theipsa.org.uk/mp-staffing-business-costs

..... you're all most welcome, enjoy 🤗 .

[WBA123]

Some very balanced views on here.

My biggest gripe is that we are worse off financially for leaving. I'd rather be better off for staying, that is and always has been my perspective.

[Omegstrat6]

I can only speak in regards to what my dad said to me Regis, those were his feelings, especially in regards to Blair.

I do agree with you that things are not now showing the same signs in regards to a USE though.

Do you not think though that this is due to the rise of the Right across many Eu countries and the changing political landscape since Merkel disappeared?

If you think back to the Eu of 2015 when Cameron tried to get us some concessions and the Eu during and just post Brexit, the Eu thing seems to be a lot more under pressure and less confident of itself than it was in the 2010’s?

I’m miles away from being any sort of sage on political matters, others on here are better qualified I think and I enjoy listening to those other people more these days.

Yourself, 123 and Omeg for example.

I was too dogmatic in pushing Brexit.

In truth, all sides including the Eu became too entrenched in their positions rather than looking for tenable solutions that would have served us all a lot better.

Your last sentence exactly! I'm far from qualified in politics but am interested enough to read around various aspects of it.

The thing that really p issed me off about the whole Brexit debate was that-there was no debate. Well, certainly no proper debate just gain saying, scare-mongering, unfounded claims and counter claims and outright lies from both sides. It must have been obvious to anyone that bothered to look deeper that the complexities of Brexit threw up so many concerns-exactly how long would the multitude of new trade agreements take to get done, the Irish border issue, what was real the likelihood of negotiating favourable new deals with Australia, the US etc, what would the impact be of losing so many EU workers on key sectors or how would the EU's reaction impact on the economy. Yet none of these got properly addressed and the right wing press, stirred by the populism of Farage, got it over the line.

That the EU was/is far from perfect is inarguably and certainly not all those who voted for Brexit were un-thoughtful in their choice by any means nor were they ignorant racists whose xenophobia lumped all immigrants together but I think Al is right in thinking that it was the latter that got Brexit done.

What really then angered me was that once some of the issues started to be talked about and more started to have second thoughts and called for a second referendum, the leading Brexiteers like Nige shouted them down saying that the "country had spoken" and that a Second vote would be "undemocratic".

Think about that for a moment. The country has just voted on quite a momentous issue. That vote was democratic and legitimate. But wait, new (or rather old) information has come to light that should make for a more informed decision. It's not too late, so why not have further discussion and a second vote? The outcome could still go either way. Surely, with such an important matter it would be worth a small delay to get a more informed outcome? But no. For me this simply smacked of those leaders of Brexit simply being fearful of it being overturned.

I know it's an extreme but using the analogy of a 50s murder trial a jury has decided an individual is guilty and he is scheduled to hang. If subsequent information came to light that might have him proven innocent would you have a re-trial or ignore it and go ahead and hang him?

Cameron never wanted to actually leave the EU, but he was weak. Too weak to get concessions from the EU and too weak not to appease the right wing "Cornerstone" element of his party that included such luminaries as John Redwood, Nadine Dorries and Steve Baker (later to be known as the "hard man of Brexit").

[baggieal]

Let’s be truthful - Brexit would not have happened if bigoted people mainly the elderly had not been sucked into the immigration mantra. EU immigration was never the issue but many were too thick to distinguish between EU and non EU which was the problem and still is.

Most likely though people who hated the Tories and voted Labour are moaning like f uck now at Starmer and the gang!

Some very balanced views on here.

My biggest gripe is that we are worse off financially for leaving. I'd rather be better off for staying, that is and always has been my perspective.

We are worse off 100%. Exporting products is a nightmare and expensive. Who wants to invest in this s hit tip of a country?

Even from a people perspective - the best years of my life were opportunities to work in Spain. This is now denied to all youngsters and even with our pensioners - very difficult now to buy and retire in the EU.

I have a mate who lives in Spain so his state pension on the U.K. side will be pittance whereas on the Spanish side it will be over 3K a month before tax.

Just been to Barcelona - everything over there was about half the price of this country and the place was clean too.