English identity?

[Andy_Faber]

It was the Scotch colonialists that asset stripped India maybe?

The Scottish were the most thorough asset strippers of all, regrettably the assets were their own

[ramAnag]

I think you’ve hit on something that makes us English. The tendency to beat ourselves up or allow others to beat us up about something that transpires to be less our responsibility than thought or not solely our responsibility

Is that it then? The English…a nation of apologists?

Seriously though…the perspective of history does shift. Steering clear of Colston, Rhodes and company, I was brought up, via sixties primary school, to think of Christopher Columbus as a brave and heroic figure. Turns out he was anything but…a real nasty piece of work and possibly not the best of navigators either.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sorry to disillusion you rA but Christopher Columbus wasn't English, not even the filmmaker version

[Geoff Parkstone]

Why steer clear of Colston, Rhodes etc? What happened happened. You may disapprove but it was the methodology of the time. Vlad the impaler don't impress me much in terms of technique but denial is in many ways as bad as facing it head on.

I went to school courtesy of a Wills family (another well known Brizzle slaver) scholarship, We played (and almost always lost) to Colston School at most sports.

As a nation we do carry a sense of guilt about "our glorious past" - both the past and this guilt do define Englishness in equal measure although that balance is shifting as wokeness comes to the fore

[ramAnag]

Why steer clear of Colston, Rhodes etc? What happened happened. You may disapprove but it was the methodology of the time. Vlad the impaler don't impress me much in terms of technique but denial is in many ways as bad as facing it head on.

I went to school courtesy of a Wills family (another well known Brizzle slaver) scholarship, We played (and almost always lost) to Colston School at most sports.

As a nation we do carry a sense of guilt about "our glorious past" - both the past and this guilt do define Englishness in equal measure although that balance is shifting as wokeness comes to the fore

That was my point, GP. I was ‘steering clear’ of Colston and Rhodes in order to avoid being accused of being anti-English and chose probably the most famous of ‘discoverer-navigators’, albeit a ‘foreigner’, to show that history isn’t displaying nationalistic bias.

How are you feeling. Have you ‘escaped’ yet?

[Geoff Parkstone]

No I'll be here a few more days yet. I'm feeling ok just waiting for antibiotics to complete their job and an MRI

[Andy_Faber]

Is that it then? The English…a nation of apologists?

Seriously though…the perspective of history does shift. Steering clear of Colston, Rhodes and company, I was brought up, via sixties primary school, to think of Christopher Columbus as a brave and heroic figure. Turns out he was anything but…a real nasty piece of work and possibly not the best of navigators either.

Apologists isn’t quite the right word but yes that’s the right ballpark

[Trickytreesreds]

Apologists isn’t quite the right word but yes that’s the right ballpark

We are the target (English) of any past misdemeanors, whilst other crimes by others don't get mentioned.
The flag of St George is derided by many, whilst the Scots/Welsh/Irish are lauded in their patriotism of the flag.

As i said, the English/British sense of fair play is used against us. crimes of our forefathers get dragged up regularly and the flag derided by what it represented.
Strangely by white native born politicians, playing to the audience of howling mobs.
They don't like English nationalism and would sooner plug the EU party line of many. Though that seems to get watered down across Europe in many countries. Even the French, jump mob handed on those deriding the tri colours.

No one mentions, the crimes/ slavery / pillaging by the other empires from around the world, in the same way as the Brits get bashed.
Where does this bashing get called out to stop, 50/100/200/ 1000 ? years
Ghengis Khan , Tamerlane, Alexander, Julius? Will those lands be called upon for reparations and to apologise?

MA= sorry, you missed the point. We have a national parliament but why doesn't England have one to deal with ENGLISH INTERESTS?
England spending should not just be a national parliament discussion.

[Andy_Faber]

No problem with the ‘birthright’/accident of birth stuff and the next one largely makes sense…glad to see you’re now accepting that, by that definition, many Muslims are as English as you or I.

Incorrect there rA because it’s what comes FIRST. For Muslims (and in fact for Jews, I don’t know about other religions) faith MUST come first.

[Trickytreesreds]

Incorrect there rA because it’s what comes FIRST. For Muslims (and in fact for Jews, I don’t know about other religions) faith MUST come first.

Beat me too it on that one. They may be born here, but their religion is more than that. It is an ideology and dictates their way of life.
We have had this conversation before, last survey I published from YOUGOV, showed 50% of UK mulsims say they are Islam first before nationality.

Islam and Jews have been allowed to have their own little courts in places, where an individuals rights will not get the same representation in a normal court. Very dangerous and does exactly the opposite of the intended integration propaganda being spouted.
Saria and Beth din are contrary to being English