+ Visit Notts. County FC Mad for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 382 of 488 FirstFirst ... 282332372380381382383384392432482 ... LastLast
Results 3,811 to 3,820 of 4871

Thread: O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

  1. #3811
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    14,396
    Nailed it there Jackal! Long gone are the days when a person entered politics with the sole aim of improving the greater good (from whichever view point) it is now a "career" held in check by a powerful, self-serving civil service.

  2. #3812
    Join Date
    Feb 2024
    Posts
    268
    The problems over the last twenty years have been those of incompetence, inflexibility, and too many advisers pedalling either their own (unelected) views or ideas for their cv.
    Brown overspent, albeit with intent to invest, meaning that we were hit harder by the crash than many others (No point in bringing up the gold sell off because a recent report reckoned he got a decent price - not convinced myself but there you go.)
    Cameron and Osborne were right (imo) with austerity. There was no choice but they kept going for too long out of sheer machismo rather than economic common sense, and damaged our ability to compete.
    I was torn for along time on whether to leave the EU or not (emotionally I agreed, intellectually I felt it would be a short-term disaster). There is little doubt that in the short-term (okay 8 years) it has had a hugely detrimental effect on our economy. A trading nation gets rid of its most convenient trading partner and realises that others are disinterested in offering reasonable deals to someone who seems desperate? Qu'elle surprise!
    We were fast asleep when Covid arrived, locked down far too late meaning that we were weeks behind our (now) economic rivals who got over the worst and started to open up. We panicked (understandably), so we opened up as well. We are too early for our circumstances and had to lock down again otherwise deaths would have been far higher (although, ironically given the recent posts we'd' have saved a bundle on pensions). If we had locked down earlier, say within two weeks of mainland Europe (notwithstanding the wishful thinking of British exceptionalism) and stopped the flights (whose decision was it not to?), we'd have been able to come out sooner. Sod the roll out (excellent though it was but nowhere close to correcting the appalling decisions it post-dated) we needed awareness not chest beating - we actually needed the odious Cummings rather than buffoons that were Johnson (how many Cobra meetings missed?) and Hancock (how many family members made wealthy?)
    Much of this explains what Starmer is up against, although I'm only going to give him a 5/10. Too negative, freebies an almighty misstep given the relatively small amounts involved. At least he is tackling the issues he was left with but I would wish he’d stop getting his excuses in first, legitimate though they may be – another problem of having to manage the media
    OchPie is entirely right to point out the ludicrous pension triple lock. This means the economically inactive have an increase exceeding inflation by £900 since its introduction and now they're having a bit of a whinge. Well they can do one. My dad was pretty much on minimum wage despite being trained in a skill (partly his own fault - lack of ambition but he worked hard and had one day sick in over 40 years), my mum worked to keep us off free school meals, they saved for post-retirement by way of a modest work place pension (only active for 10 years before my dad retired). They can afford the loss of the fuel allowance. It won’t be easy but they do something called budgeting and not going to the pub that often. [I'm actually going to pay the fuel allowance for them, because I can afford to.]
    I was one of those lazy entitled students that 1959 (who from his name I’d estimate predates me by either two or three school years) references/accuses. Well I apologise personally for doing my best and paying well over a million in tax over the years and being proud to do so in order actually to put something back, by way of repayment to the country which educated and raised me. Compare and contrast with some party donors who are throwing a wobbly with one hand at the thought of a tax increase whilst pleading patriotism with the other. [I actually don't think taxes should go up but their disingenuity makes me sick.]
    Labour's media performance, as with much else, with the fuel allowance has been woeful and they should have linked it to the triple lock with a plan to set the pension at a sensible level (whatever that may be but not reducing it) and adjust it by a new/revised index of inflation which measures those elements the state pension is for, including fuel among the essentials.

  3. #3813
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,162
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackHorse View Post
    ... if anyone deluded themselves into thinking that we live in a democracy, this is further evidence that, for decades, we live in a dictatorship with a hard core/handful of power struck idiots aided and abetted by a multitued of self-serving controllers at all levels who will never give up
    the power of their own little empires. It's the UK version of communism - absolute control; and we can do f-all about it.
    Our tin pot 'government' plays about with eveyone else's money; it's peanuts compared to what goes on on the world stage. With covid control fading, the current stick is the climate change nonsense ... trying to frighten everyone into moving in a their desired direction. The efforts of the climate change scientists to rape governments of our £££'s mirrors that of big pharma conning every government daft enough to listen re covid.
    The combined efforts of the mob to control climate are as great as the length of a knats c.ck being waved about in a hurricane when compared to what the effect of the sun will have at some time in the future. Ssk the scientists about that ...
    A brilliant post horsey.
    NCM OT post of the year.
    Thank you ✌️

  4. #3814
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    9,974
    Quote Originally Posted by jackal2 View Post
    Surely it has never been more apparent how far the two "main" political parties have been twisted and distorted out of shape by the vacuous career politicians and malevolent unelected bureaucratic forces that now effectively control both of those parties and the country, to the point where Labour and Conservatives are delivering almost the precise opposite of what they are ideologically supposed to stand for. A Conservative Government leaving the tax burden at a 70-year high, and a Labour Government taking winter fuel payments away from 90% of pensioners. Could you imagine, for example, Margaret Thatcher ever tolerating the former, or Jeremy Corbyn ever proposing the latter?
    Keir Starmer didn’t even enter politics until he was 53, so I’m not sure how he can be classed as a ‘career politician’. If anyone deserves that title it’s Jeremy Corbyn isn’t it?

    It’s also touching how many people in this thread have discovered a sudden love of the welfare state after voting for it to be filleted over the last 14 years. Taking money off rich pensioners bad, putting hundreds of thousands of children into poverty good, apparently. And yes Labour maintaining the 2 child benefit cap will only make that worse.

  5. #3815
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    14,396
    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    Keir Starmer didn’t even enter politics until he was 53, so I’m not sure how he can be classed as a ‘career politician’. If anyone deserves that title it’s Jeremy Corbyn isn’t it?

    It’s also touching how many people in this thread have discovered a sudden love of the welfare state after voting for it to be filleted over the last 14 years. Taking money off rich pensioners bad, putting hundreds of thousands of children into poverty good, apparently. And yes Labour maintaining the 2 child benefit cap will only make that worse.
    The majority on here are in favour of the welfare state. The only negative comments I have seen over the years are those that mention the abuse of the welfare state (the lazy and the work-shy who know how to work the system).

  6. #3816
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    13,571
    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    Keir Starmer didn’t even enter politics until he was 53, so I’m not sure how he can be classed as a ‘career politician’. If anyone deserves that title it’s Jeremy Corbyn isn’t it?
    I didn't cite Keir Starmer as a career politician in my post, but you actually make a fair point that it's too simplistic to blame all career politicians for the demise of the two main parties, or to absolve from blame all of those who don't fit that description.

    Jeremy Corbyn could indeed be described as a career politician with strong ideological beliefs to which he has stayed (comparatively) true and consistent, whereas "Sir" Keir Starmer has proven over a much shorter political career that he will do and say anything to get to the top and ride the freebie train, including both supporting and then discarding the aforementioned Corbyn when it suited him.

  7. #3817
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,879
    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    Keir Starmer didn’t even enter politics until he was 53, so I’m not sure how he can be classed as a ‘career politician’.
    He’s done well to learn how to take £107,000 worth of freebies nearly 2.5 times more than the next highest claimed by Lucy Powell, and that’s only from 2019. Just admit it BFP, you’ve been had over by all your socialist mates, there worse than the Torries and that’s saying something, but as I’ve told you before they are ALL as bad as each other, don’t trust any of them regardless of party.

  8. #3818
    Join Date
    Apr 2023
    Posts
    298
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackHorse View Post
    ... if anyone deluded themselves into thinking that we live in a democracy, this is further evidence that, for decades, we live in a dictatorship with a hard core/handful of power struck idiots aided and abetted by a multitued of self-serving controllers at all levels who will never give up
    the power of their own little empires. It's the UK version of communism - absolute control; and we can do f-all about it.
    Our tin pot 'government' plays about with eveyone else's money; it's peanuts compared to what goes on on the world stage. With covid control fading, the current stick is the climate change nonsense ... trying to frighten everyone into moving in a their desired direction..........
    IMHO there is a strata of society, Government and religions whose unspoken aim is to keep the masses subdued so that they can maintain their elevated status. Religion, alcohol and nowadays anything that gives us all a quick dopamine hit like on-line shopping, smart phones or watching Love Island, Strictly, Big Brother will keep us from questioning our masters too closely.

    The recent riots showed (and I'm misusing a phrase from somewhere else here) civilization is a mile wide and an inch thick. I bet the authorities were glad when the footy season started and it's coming towards the end of the year. Riots never happen in winter really do they?

    It's my conspiracy theory and I'm going to stick to it! LOL.

    Plato's noble lie anyone?

    Edit: Someone has noticed the addiction theory, but hasn't made the elite controlling of the masses connection, ha, ha:


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/13/can-you-resist-all-the-addictions-modern-life-throws-at-you-only-if-youre-rich-enough
    Last edited by LincsPie; 13-10-2024 at 06:02 PM. Reason: Add comment and link

  9. #3819
    Join Date
    Jan 2024
    Posts
    590
    Quote Originally Posted by OchPie View Post
    Again, I am not saying pensioners have had it easy. But whining about how expensive the mortgage was when for most young people there is no ability to buy a house at all isn't a winning argument.

    Per the Resolution Foundation about the years of Tory misrule:

    "Pensioners have gained an average of £900 annually, while working-age families have lost an average of £1,500 per year. The hardest-hit groups since 2010 include out-of-work households receiving benefits, losing an average of £2,200 annually, and large families with three or more children, who are £4,600 worse off on average."

    So yeah, relatively speaking, pensioners have done better. No surprise given they were the Tory core vote.

    As for house prices, plenty of blame to go around but the core is we just aren't building enough houses. Several reasons for that including the planning system, the priortisation of golf courses over houses, the lack of intervention with developers who just sit on land, and so on. Much of this due to the policies that pensioners pushed and voted for.

    As for that starting wage - maybe, but the average weekly wage for a manual labourer in 1975 was ten times that, or about £1,100 - a week - in today's money. Minimum wage for over 21s today is less than half that.



    They could have taxed the Winter Fuel Payment rather than selectively withdrawing it. But the money hasn't "already been taken off them". It's paid on November or December. Still time to ensure those who need the help end up better, not worse, off.
    You need to remember that pensioners were young once and also faced hardship starting out in married life !
    The difference then being a working ethic and not buying things that they couldn't afford.
    In addition pensioners paid NI throughout their working lives, funding state pensions for senior citizens without whinging about it.
    The same criteria applied to size of families , responsible couples didn't have children they couldn't afford , rather than the taxpayers funding a family.
    In essence, the same criteria throughout history , meant that cities expanded through job creation and prosperity.
    Rightly or wrongly, married people stayed together and single people and single parents didn't create pressure on housing stock.
    Regarding the net gains and losses statistics which you quoted, you must remember statistics can be manipulated and are forever changing.
    Thatcher famously stated that "there is no such thing as society " which coincided with the foundations of yuppies ,the greedy mantra division and resentment .
    Last edited by SinceSept1959; 13-10-2024 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Addendum

  10. #3820
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,604
    Quote Originally Posted by SinceSept1959 View Post
    You need to remember that pensioners were young once and also faced hardship starting out in married life !
    The difference then being a working ethic and not buying things that they couldn't afford.
    In addition pensioners paid NI throughout their working lives, funding state pensions for senior citizens without whinging about it.
    The same criteria applied to size of families , responsible couples didn't have children they couldn't afford , rather than the taxpayers funding a family.
    In essence, the same criteria throughout history , meant that cities expanded through job creation and prosperity.
    Rightly or wrongly, married people stayed together and single people and single parents didn't create pressure on housing stock.
    Regarding the net gains and losses statistics which you quoted, you must remember statistics can be manipulated and are forever changing.
    Thatcher famously stated that "there is no such thing as society " which coincided with the foundations of yuppies ,the greedy mantra division and resentment .
    The rule of thumb is....if a government introduces a benefit, it's nigh on impossible to remove it.

    This could be Starmer's Poll Tax moment - it's very early in his tenure though. As with the Poll Tax, it probably wasn't a terrible idea, just totally mishandled and poorly introduced.

Page 382 of 488 FirstFirst ... 282332372380381382383384392432482 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •