Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

The tories say no black hole, the government say there is. personally I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

But I have no evidence of course.

They have been challenged sith to show this black hole. They refuse to do so.
I take that as a lie then and the black hole we now have, is after all the pay rises/ the white elephant GB energy/ foreign aid/ foreign climate aid/ asylum fiasco/ all the little ones added together like donations to African spice girls band, or dance troops.

[MadAmster]

They have been challenged sith to show this black hole. They refuse to do so.
I take that as a lie then and the black hole we now have, is after all the pay rises/ the white elephant GB energy/ foreign aid/ foreign climate aid/ asylum fiasco/ all the little ones added together like donations to African spice girls band, or dance troops.

Pay rises. I don't think anybody could, successfully, argue that doctors and nurses didn't deserve a hefty rise. Well deserved IMO. Add to that the fact that, due to the low wage and high hours, doctors and nurses were leaving at a great rate to get jobs either in the private sector or abroad then the rises were totally necessary to keep the NHS alive. Hopefully, this rise will stem the flow and encourage more to join the NHS. I also think their next rise will also be higher than inflation.

The train drivers? Don't they work for privately owned rail companies. How would their pay rise affect government coffers? As I've said before, the Blue Tory HMG getting involved and putting the mockers on any real wage negotiations was strange as, in reality, it's not their job to negotiate wage rates and/or T&C's in the private sphere. It was a purely political move on their part and should not, IMO, have happened. What will happen down the line ( ) will be interesting to follow. What I don't ever see being agreed to is railway employees agreeing to more weekend working tied to a decrease in weekend working premiums, ditto night shifts and they also won't agree to things they deem to lessen passenger safety. Personally, I can't say I disagree with them. The cure? When franchises expire, don't extend them. Let a national enterprise take over and run them for the good of passengers. Most are foreign owned. At least one is Dutch owned and the dividend they get helps keep our train service running somewhat better than the UK trains.

[Trickytreesreds]

Pay rises. I don't think anybody could, successfully, argue that doctors and nurses didn't deserve a hefty rise. Well deserved IMO. Add to that the fact that, due to the low wage and high hours, doctors and nurses were leaving at a great rate to get jobs either in the private sector or abroad then the rises were totally necessary to keep the NHS alive. Hopefully, this rise will stem the flow and encourage more to join the NHS. I also think their next rise will also be higher than inflation.

The train drivers? Don't they work for privately owned rail companies. How would their pay rise affect government coffers? As I've said before, the Blue Tory HMG getting involved and putting the mockers on any real wage negotiations was strange as, in reality, it's not their job to negotiate wage rates and/or T&C's in the private sphere. It was a purely political move on their part and should not, IMO, have happened. What will happen down the line ( ) will be interesting to follow. What I don't ever see being agreed to is railway employees agreeing to more weekend working tied to a decrease in weekend working premiums, ditto night shifts and they also won't agree to things they deem to lessen passenger safety. Personally, I can't say I disagree with them. The cure? When franchises expire, don't extend them. Let a national enterprise take over and run them for the good of passengers. Most are foreign owned. At least one is Dutch owned and the dividend they get helps keep our train service running somewhat better than the UK trains.

Pay rises. If they caused the black hole, then they should say so, not insinuate the Tories left them one.

As for train drivers. That job is a 7 day a week job. Like airlines or the police/medical/fire/prisons. Week end premiums should have nothing to do with it. This is one of the last bastiens of Union muscle areas, over paying for a job that is low skill.
train fares are ridiculously high, but over heads on a white elephant drive it.

[MadAmster]

Pay rises. If they caused the black hole, then they should say so, not insinuate the Tories left them one.

As for train drivers. That job is a 7 day a week job. Like airlines or the police/medical/fire/prisons. Week end premiums should have nothing to do with it. This is one of the last bastiens of Union muscle areas, over paying for a job that is low skill.
train fares are ridiculously high, but over heads on a white elephant drive it.

Which part of "Rail personnel work for private companies, not for the government" have you failed to understand. HMG does NOT pay train drivers or ticket office staff or those that man the barriers. How could giving rail staff a rise affect HMG deficits?

I suppose you also think doctors and nurses aren't worth being paid well enough to keep the NHS from folding?

Do you misunderstand on purpose or are you so intent on, for some ultra strange reason, being right and/or having the last word.

Just for you, I'll repeat, HMG, whether the Blue or the Red variety DO NOT pay train personnel.

The NHS was haemorrhaging staff due to long hours and low pay. The rise was necessary to stop it crumbling altogether and being sold off to the private system and that would result in huge costs for medical treatment. Insurance payments would go through the roof. We'd have loads of people going bankrupt because they can't pay their medical bills. In the USA that's around half a million people a year going bust.

Do you ever think things through?

[Trickytreesreds]

Which part of "Rail personnel work for private companies, not for the government" have you failed to understand. HMG does NOT pay train drivers or ticket office staff or those that man the barriers. How could giving rail staff a rise affect HMG deficits?

I suppose you also think doctors and nurses aren't worth being paid well enough to keep the NHS from folding?

Do you misunderstand on purpose or are you so intent on, for some ultra strange reason, being right and/or having the last word.

Just for you, I'll repeat, HMG, whether the Blue or the Red variety DO NOT pay train personnel.

The NHS was haemorrhaging staff due to long hours and low pay. The rise was necessary to stop it crumbling altogether and being sold off to the private system and that would result in huge costs for medical treatment. Insurance payments would go through the roof. We'd have loads of people going bankrupt because they can't pay their medical bills. In the USA that's around half a million people a year going bust.

Do you ever think things through?

Do you? The question was the black hole. You know, that thing that Labour keeps crowing about, but won't give any evidence as to its origin?
Whether I agree on the pay rises or not, is irrellevent to the question.
You have twisted it away from the onus of proof, to a guilt trip.
Perhaps you need to get off your high horse or fence.

[MadAmster]

Do you? The question was the black hole. You know, that thing that Labour keeps crowing about, but won't give any evidence as to its origin?
Whether I agree on the pay rises or not, is irrellevent to the question.
You have twisted it away from the onus of proof, to a guilt trip.
Perhaps you need to get off your high horse or fence.

Yes, the black hole you seem to think was created by train drivers wage rises when the government DOES NOT pay train drivers, they get paid by the PRIVATE rail companies. I've twisted nothing. Merely pointed out that the train drivers have nothing to do with the black hole.