O/T:- Betting odds for US Election [The USA Politics Thread]

[Bohinen]

I think the best way forward is to find a solution for both parties that's better than either a perpetual war of attrition or a major global conflict. That means both sides will have to concede something they want, but it's better than the alternatives. There's no easy way out of this, so I prefer the one that ends it sooner, with the least loss of life.

As the great Tony Benn said, war is the ultimate failure of diplomacy. The way forward is more diplomacy, more talks, and hopefully some kind of agreement. Controversial, I know, but I think that's better than launching missiles into Russian territory at this point.

Of course there needs to be an end to the conflict, what can prolonging it possibly gain? Biden needs stopping now before any more damage is done. I don't care if he supposedly represents the 'left', in fact, I don't believe that for a minute. There is nothing left-wing about starting wars. He represents globalism and big business interests.

It's almost as if he's taking his last chance to make an impact, but do we want a senile old man making these decisions, or rather being too feeble to stand up to those behind him who are pushing him to go further? I have no faith in Starmer to do anything other than tag along either. It's a pity the likes of Tony Benn aren't around anymore to rein him in.

[BigFatPie]

And the right has so utterly lost its way that it no longer knows friend from foe.

You claim not to be pro putin, but spread his lies for him. Weird.



Right so let me get this straight.

Biden... zero new wars, ended Afghanistan (remember when that was important five minutes ago) and got inflation down 2.6% - terrible for America, better vote in an absolute clown

Putin: Invaded a neighbour, gained about 20% of their land in exchange for hundreds of thousands of casualties, at a minimum tens of thousands of dead, thousands of lost tanks, thousands of lost armoured vehicles etc etc. 20+% inflation - he's been good for Russia.

Got it, makes perfect sense.



New Zealand was part of New South Wales until 1841 - so you'd be ok with Australia invading?

Russia has no legal claim to any part of Ukraine and had signed a treaty recognising their independence and promising to respect their territorial integrity. One of the difficulties with ending the war is that Putin broke his word by invading and so any promise he makes can't be trusted in the future.



If the scots hold a referendum and vote to leave the UK then that's one thing. But if Norway invaded to "protect Scottish independence" without even such a vote taking place would you defend that? Because that's what you're defending in Crimea.



Obama started 7 campaigns? Which 7 would that be?

Yes, Biden is causing problems for Putin, because Putin invaded his neighbours.

Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

The right have lost their minds generally, but the desperation to keep Putin happy in this situation is weird even by their standards.

Russia could stop the war today by ceasing to fire missiles at and getting their soldiers out of Ukraine, but somehow it?s the ?Dems? who are warmongering by giving Ukraine the capability to defend themselves?

The only thing I can think of is that their hero Trump loves Putin so by extension they should too. In no other conflict in the world would they argue the idiocy that?s been argued here.

[Elite_Pie]

As per usual, it is the left that is portraying Putin as being the 100% bad guy. Now I am definitely not pro, but I am also not anti-Putin.

So you seem to be saying that Putin is an ok kind of guy. Interesting.

As I don't live in Russia or wholly understand Russian politics, listening to the western media and forming a view on world politics from what they 'report', in my experience, is not a good way to go though.

Maybe you should listen to what Russian state media 'report'.

You'd probably see that as fair and balanced!

[LincsPie]

Perhaps DT had a hand in this decision so he can 'stop the war in a day' by ' persuading' VZ not to use them and DT and VP can then be bro's.

[upthemaggies]

Perhaps DT had a hand in this decision so he can 'stop the war in a day' by ' persuading' VZ not to use them and DT and VP can then be bro's.

As mad as any theory sounds, you can't rule anything out.

We've all got a pretty good grasp of how incredibly more advanced computer technology has become since the 1950s, how attitudes have changed so much since then, popular music, psychiatry, fashions, cars, language, surgical operations etc. Yet nobody seems to have got to grips with the fact that propaganda methods will have evolved at a similar pace during that same time frame. There seems to be an expectation that it's all still Nazi or early Soviet levels of sophistication and that we can all still see through it because it's so obvious.

I saw somebody speculating the other day that the last 5 years or so of insane levels of progressive leftism has been one big far-right psyop, a "create the problem and offer the solution" type of scenario. The west has become so unfathomably ridiculous since 2019, who can say with 100% certainty that this isn't the case?

[magpie_mania]

If DT really has the ability to stop the war in a day, why doesn?t he just share the secret now rather than waiting another couple of months?

[Lullapie]

Obama started 7 campaigns? Which 7 would that be?

Yes, Biden is causing problems for Putin, because Putin invaded his neighbours.

Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

Here, I'll help you. Obviously your google search doesn't stretch to facts:

Operation Ocean Shield - began 2009
US intervention in Libya - 2011
Operation Observant Compass - 2011
US intervention in Niger - 2013
US intervention in Iraq - 2014
US intervention in Syria - 2014
US intervention in Libya - 2015

These were actually taken from Wikipedia - so unless you doubt Wikipedia's authenticity, you ought to agree on these. There were others mentioned on another site, smaller skirmishes, where the US army were sent in to 'deal with insurgents', but the site doesn't have the unbiasedness that Wikipedia has.

[Lullapie]

Biden... zero new wars, ended Afghanistan (remember when that was important five minutes ago) and got inflation down 2.6% - terrible for America, better vote in an absolute clown





New Zealand was part of New South Wales until 1841 - so you'd be ok with Australia invading?


Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

Well, across much of the media, they have a different opinion to you with regards to Biden and Harris. Even a smiling Jill Biden being photographed after voting in the election, dressed in a beautiful red suit, says quite a lot to those who have a brain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comme...a-harris-lost/

Biden actually sent the US Army into the Red Sea with Operation Prosperity Guardian in 2023. You can't knock the Democrats for their inventive campaign names!

With regards to the Afghanistan withdrawal, you must have been living in a cave. That was a MASSIVE debacle. Thousands of Afghanis who had supported the US, left to face the wrath of the Taliban. Billions of dollars of US war inventory, left behind for the Taliban and thir**** US soldiers and over 100 Afghanis killed by a suicide bomber at Kabul International Airport.

Even the lefty press called it chaotic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ithdrawal-book

With regards to Australia invading New Zealand, I'd be more concerned about New Zealand invading Australia if I was you. With the amount of Kiwis leaving NZ for Aussie, you'll be in the minority soon.

As former NZ Prime Minister, Rob Muldoon once said, "New Zealanders emigrating to Australia raises the IQ in both countries."

[since41]

[QUOTE=Lullapie;40604539]






(When Russia annexed the Crimea in 2014, the population was nearly all Russian. It may have been a pre-cursor to taking more land, but the Ukraine cause wasn't helped by the snuggling up of the Ukraine to NATO. To the Russians, this was the equivalent of the Cubans taking on Russian Nuclear missiles in 1962 and threatening the US. To Russia, it was a direct threat.

Again, I'm not defending what Russia did in the Crimea, but if you believe in self-determination, then why shouldn't the Crimea be Russian?)

I wonder why it was mainly? Russians.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.o...ign-of-erasure

In Vladivostok a few years ago I had a meal with one of Stalin's transported Tatar's who with thousand of others was sent to Siberia he survived to a ripe old age other did not.

[drillerpie]

I think the best way forward is to find a solution for both parties that's better than either a perpetual war of attrition or a major global conflict. That means both sides will have to concede something they want, but it's better than the alternatives. There's no easy way out of this, so I prefer the one that ends it sooner, with the least loss of life.

As the great Tony Benn said, war is the ultimate failure of diplomacy. The way forward is more diplomacy, more talks, and hopefully some kind of agreement. Controversial, I know, but I think that's better than launching missiles into Russian territory at this point.

Ok sure, war is bad and things are better when there isn't any war. No argument there.

Question was, in your opinion, to get to that point should the US equip the Ukrainians, should someone else equip the Ukrainians, or should nobody equip the Ukrainians?