OT - Coincidence or design?

[ramAnag]

But it isn't means tested is it?
Its pensioners credits or nowt
Minimum wage gets you 20-22k a year.
Yet pensioners credit means ?1 above 11.336k a year, means you get nowt. Do you not see the injustice in this. Factor in MP's getting fuel allowance, asylum seekers getting pocket money etc,
WFA was an unjust attack

Whichever way you look at it, the WFA is now subject to some sort of means testing, it hasn’t been communicated well but that is what has happened. I’ll accept there may be flaws and personally I’d prefer such a redistribution to have come from the genuinely wealthy, but ultimately by removing benefits from those who don’t really need them the government has been able to raise the minimum wage.

MP’s getting fuel allowance and an allowance for asylum seekers are a totally different issues and I notice you’ve steered away from the farmers. Not as unjust as Clarkson and the rest of the right whingers first made out perhaps.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm a bit puzzled by this rA. You say by removing the WFA the government "has been able to raise the minimum wage"???

The minimum wage isn't paid for by the government, it's paid by the employer (except to the extent it's funded by apprentice Levy, which is only a small part of the overall picture). In fact the government will gain by raising the minimum wage as it will take more workers (further) into the tax and / or NI "trap", and also impose more employers NI. So it's a win win for HMG and a lose lose for employers and (some) pensioners.

So the Chancellor could have raised the minimum wage without needing to cut WFA or indeed changed funding elsewhere in any way. In fact the additional tax and NI created by raising minimum wage could perhaps even have raised enough revenue to retain the WFA!

[ramAnag]

I'm a bit puzzled by this rA. You say by removing the WFA the government "has been able to raise the minimum wage"???

The minimum wage isn't paid for by the government, it's paid by the employer (except to the extent it's funded by apprentice Levy, which is only a small part of the overall picture). In fact the government will gain by raising the minimum wage as it will take more workers (further) into the tax and / or NI "trap", and also impose more employers NI. So it's a win win for HMG and a lose lose for employers and (some) pensioners.

So the Chancellor could have raised the minimum wage without needing to cut WFA or indeed changed funding elsewhere in any way. In fact the additional tax and NI created by raising minimum wage could perhaps even have raised enough revenue to retain the WFA!

I will bow to your superior knowledge of the financial system if that is the case.
My main point has always been that critics of this government, from Tricky to Musk and the right wing press as a whole, are quick and determined to find fault but very slow to acknowledge that anything positive has happened.
Imo, raising the minimum wage and the extra investment in the NHS are two positives however when you make informed financial arguments you are often right. You do know more than most, including me, about financial detail so happy to be corrected.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I will bow to your superior knowledge of the financial system if that is the case.
My main point has always been that critics of this government, from Tricky to Musk and the right wing press as a whole, are quick and determined to find fault but very slow to acknowledge that anything positive has happened.
Imo, raising the minimum wage and the extra investment in the NHS are two positives however when you make informed financial arguments you are often right. You do know more than most, including me, about financial detail so happy to be corrected.

That's the beauty of opposition isn't it though. Easy to criticize and not so easy to present better solutions or acknowledge positives. Blame Tricky, Musk and right wing press if you will but you, insert name and the left wing press were no different over the previous decade. Is it ever this, which is why I am so cynical about politics I suppose.

[ramAnag]

That's the beauty of opposition isn't it though. Easy to criticize and not so easy to present better solutions or acknowledge positives. Blame Tricky, Musk and right wing press if you will but you, insert name and the left wing press were no different over the previous decade. Is it ever this, which is why I am so cynical about politics I suppose.

Not sure about that. I’d like to think not. If I (honestly) think back to what and who I’ve been most outspokenly critical of over the years I think you’d probably agree that it’s been mainly Johnson, Farage, Truss and Brexit. The first has been shown to be a proven liar, the second not much different and the latter two both unmitigated disasters for the country so in that respect those of us who have opposed them all have been proved right. What Trump and Musk get up to has yet to be seen but the signs aren’t good imo.

I think MA has touched on an opposite direction although I doubt there is much appetite for revolution for the reasons already given, the complacent comfort of the majority, but there must surely be a better and fairer way and personally I long for a time when there is some sort of consensus, at a much higher level than here, when those who hold views that are typified by the likes of you and I can reach some sort of compromise for the betterment of all.

I note that the LA firefighters are currently receiving help from their Mexican and Canadian counterparts. How refreshing. It an be done!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Meanwhile, in a further symbol of unity across cultures, there are plenty of local youths helping to clear local houses, temporarily vacated due to fire risk, of all evidently unwanted consumer durables such as TVs etc.

No doubt these will be kept in safe storage away from the flames, before the assets will be returned once the fire risk has abated.

I'm not sure which set of actions is most typical of sections of US society - your example or mine? I did note similar altruistic actions during the Croydon riots / fires in 2011 and in other moments of local emergency.

[ramAnag]

Meanwhile, in a further symbol of unity across cultures, there are plenty of local youths helping to clear local houses, temporarily vacated due to fire risk, of all evidently unwanted consumer durables such as TVs etc.

No doubt these will be kept in safe storage away from the flames, before the assets will be returned once the fire risk has abated.

I'm not sure which set of actions is most typical of sections of US society - your example or mine? I did note similar altruistic actions during the Croydon riots / fires in 2011 and in other moments of local emergency.

Touche, although I’m guessing that, seeing as the Mexicans and Canadians are from, well…Mexico and Canada, it’ll be those ‘local youths’ again.

[Trickytreesreds]

Whichever way you look at it, the WFA is now subject to some sort of means testing, it hasn’t been communicated well but that is what has happened. I’ll accept there may be flaws and personally I’d prefer such a redistribution to have come from the genuinely wealthy, but ultimately by removing benefits from those who don’t really need them the government has been able to raise the minimum wage.

MP’s getting fuel allowance and an allowance for asylum seekers are a totally different issues and I notice you’ve steered away from the farmers. Not as unjust as Clarkson and the rest of the right whingers first made out perhaps.

I picked on the poorest being penalised. You are a comfortable pensioner. Yet a pensioner on half the wage of a minimum wager, gets flogged? So how is MP's being paid FA and Asylum seejers getting weekly spending money fair, in those circumstances?

The farmers thing, is an inheritance attack. It doesn't come from public purses.

[Trickytreesreds]

Meanwhile, in a further symbol of unity across cultures, there are plenty of local youths helping to clear local houses, temporarily vacated due to fire risk, of all evidently unwanted consumer durables such as TVs etc.

No doubt these will be kept in safe storage away from the flames, before the assets will be returned once the fire risk has abated.

I'm not sure which set of actions is most typical of sections of US society - your example or mine? I did note similar altruistic actions during the Croydon riots / fires in 2011 and in other moments of local emergency.

Don't forget the poor leader of BLM, has lost 2 of the three houses she brought with donation money. I'm devestated for her

[ramAnag]

I picked on the poorest being penalised. You are a comfortable pensioner. Yet a pensioner on half the wage of a minimum wager, gets flogged? So how is MP's being paid FA and Asylum seejers getting weekly spending money fair, in those circumstances?

The farmers thing, is an inheritance attack. It doesn't come from public purses.

You’re right, I am a relatively ‘comfortable pensioner’ though not a wealthy one. So it’s not unreasonable to ask, how was it fair that comfortably and well off pensioners received the WFP?
It’s been handled clumsily but it’s not, imo, a dreadful or unfair strategy. I haven’t mentioned MPs or asylum seekers.