Matchday Thread: Rams v Watford

[swaledale]

Admire the optimism of both you and Swale but even amongst you two there is a theme developing of ?stop chopping and changing?.

Unfortunately the facts are, I think, that we?ve won just four of our last 21 matches and taken 18 of 60 available points.

That is relegation form in anyone?s language, and after an encouraging opening to the season, has been for a while.

Obviously I genuinely hope I?m completely wrong and your optimism is well founded, but looking at the fixtures ahead, unless there?s a recovery of Lazarus like proportions, I doubt we?ll have added more than another five points by this time next month.

At what point do we recognise that the manager is living up to his reputation of being able to win promotion from L1 but equally unable to build on that?

Not joining the ?Warne Out? clamour but a genuine question which I think is going to require an imminent answer.

Warne's reputation based on what? Rotherham? With any promoted team, its a big step up into the higher league and requires an input of players with that level of ability, unless the club has been building a squad and u21's with players that can develop quickly. Derby got promoted with a team cobbled together on a budget, and didn't spend big last summer.

The reality is we needed a striker, we got an average one on loan from another championship club, which shows his lack of quality. The hope is that the new striker can be that catalyst, he certainly seems to fit the part being good in the air and able to hold up play.

But this dissing Warne because he is struggling with a squad that lacks quality and in reality hasn't actually been playing that badly is bizarre. As is the inference that his signings have been "mistakes", any loan or permanent transfer is a gamble, one only has to look at players for which multi million pound transfer fees have been paid to know that. When one is shopping in the bargain basement, the gamble is the same, just the cost of signing a player who doesn't perform is a lot less.

The team requires a couple of quality players, either loan or transfers to provide some strength in depth and a wee bit of change in luck and all will be well.

[ramAnag]

Warne's reputation based on what? Rotherham? With any promoted team, its a big step up into the higher league and requires an input of players with that level of ability, unless the club has been building a squad and u21's with players that can develop quickly. Derby got promoted with a team cobbled together on a budget, and didn't spend big last summer.

The reality is we needed a striker, we got an average one on loan from another championship club, which shows his lack of quality. The hope is that the new striker can be that catalyst, he certainly seems to fit the part being good in the air and able to hold up play.

But this dissing Warne because he is struggling with a squad that lacks quality and in reality hasn't actually been playing that badly is bizarre. As is the inference that his signings have been "mistakes", any loan or permanent transfer is a gamble, one only has to look at players for which multi million pound transfer fees have been paid to know that. When one is shopping in the bargain basement, the gamble is the same, just the cost of signing a player who doesn't perform is a lot less.

The team requires a couple of quality players, either loan or transfers to provide some strength in depth and a wee bit of change in luck and all will be well.

I don’t think it is ‘dissing Warne’ to ask that question and yes, obviously based on Rotherham, as Derby and them are the only two clubs he’s ever managed.
It’s a reasonable question imo. Do we stick - with a manager who got us up but has no record of being able to maintain that progress - or twist?
In his favour he got us up via an automatic place. On the other hand the away form this season has been little short of an embarrassment, our overall record over the last three months has been very poor and, although I accept he’s been unlucky with injuries, his signings have been ‘mixed’ at best.
I’m not pretending to know the answer but I expect the majority of supporters will be asking the same question.
You’ve not been shy of criticising his ‘chopping and changing’, so what would you do now?

[swaledale]

I don?t think it is ?dissing Warne? to ask that question and yes, obviously based on Rotherham, as Derby and them are the only two clubs he?s ever managed.
It?s a reasonable question imo. Do we stick - with a manager who got us up but has no record of being able to maintain that progress - or twist?
In his favour he got us up via an automatic place. On the other hand the away form this season has been little short of an embarrassment, our overall record over the last three months has been very poor and, although I accept he?s been unlucky with injuries, his signings have been ?mixed? at best.
I?m not pretending to know the answer but I expect the majority of supporters will be asking the same question.
You?ve not been shy of criticising his ?chopping and changing?, so what would you do now?

We stick clearly, to change now would be foolish (it won't change the situation with the players and in any case Clowes shows no signs of doing so. Yes one can only judge him on Rotherham, but with respect, he had no funds to strengthen the squad, a good L1 team will generally struggle in the championship and even with funds attracting quality players to a club like Rotherham is an issue. Whereas, albeit not as fast as many would like, we are starting to get some quality in at Derby.

I haven't said fans can't criticise or question what Warne does, that's part of football and yes I have queried his chopping and changing tactics and formations, but that may be down to injuries and player fitness, having to squeeze square pegs into round holes.

You keep saying his signings have been "mixed" at best, ignoring the fact that he has until last summer been shopping in the bargain basement, there is plenty of evidence at Derby and at other clubs that any transfer or loan is a gamble and rare is the manager who even with a healthy transfer and wage budget has all his signings pay off. In fairness Warne has managed very well, achieving automatic promotion with a side that he put together, even whilst having to sell some better players, a side which I recall you dissing many of the signings.

In the real world of football, its not that easy to secure the players one would ideally want, there are many other clubs especially in the championship who can offer higher fees, higher wages and better prospects in promotion etc. than Derby can at the moment, thats a realistic assessment of where we are at this moment in time.