O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[keldsyke]

My proof is that you said "We've seen the effects of that over the last few years".

Who has been in power for the vast majority of those last few years?

In case you're struggling, the answer begins with T and ends with ories.

Regionally, Nottingham the absurd Labour council that have ruined the city and criminally wasted so much money.

There is a bigger picture out there you don?t want to see or acknowledge

[Elite_Pie]

Regionally, Nottingham the absurd Labour council that have ruined the city and criminally wasted so much money.

There is a bigger picture out there you don?t want to see or acknowledge

He was obviously talking about 'the bigger picture', so I replied about 'the bigger picture'.

If you want to start a regional debate then do so by all means.

[BigFatPie]

Of course he is. What the left-leaning contributors in the world fortunately forget to mention is history. We learn by history, but the lefties don't like that. So they ignore it or rewrite it.

We've seen the effects of that over the last few years. We lose our history, we lose our knowledge, we lose our heritage. Who is it that's been destroying all our monuments and telling us to feel ashamed for what happened hundreds of years ago? It's a pattern throughout the world.

All history is in the constant process of being rewritten. Its like science, thats kind of how it works.

[magpie_mania]

Jampie tells lots of 'fibs;'. I've caught him out a few times and he's a bit of a 'Walter Mitty'. To suggest that it is Trump who has backed down goes against what most of the media - even the lefty media - is reporting. The Mexican President has agreed to station immediately 10,000 Mexican troops at the border. The Canadian Premier has agreed to spend US$1.3 billion on shoring up the US/Canada border and create an anti-Fentanyl team. Trump has given nothing back in return.

Only someone who is deluded could see that as a Trump backdown.

As I keep saying, there will be only one winner.

Last week Trump said that the tariffs on Canada and Mexico start tomorrow. He was asked if there was anything they could do to stop that happening. His answer was an unequivocal, ?No?.

But now he has dropped the tariffs. So yes, he has backed down.

[keldsyke]

He was obviously talking about 'the bigger picture', so I replied about 'the bigger picture'.

If you want to start a regional debate then do so by all means.

No need for a regional debate everyone knows that Labour have fecked up big time in Nottingham and ruined the city, pointless to debate.

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

I too, wasn't a Trump supporter initially. I only knew of him as property developer and wealthy businessman. I didn't even know that he had a TV programme.

For years I felt that there was a separation between the working person and the government though. I felt it in when I lived the UK and I feel it where I live now.

Trump came along and shook up the establishment. On top on that, being an entrepreneur he knew how to get things done. That really resonated with me and I can now see entirely why and how he does things. It kind of turned on a light.

The small minded bigots that berate him, in my opinion, either have a vested interest in bleeding their country dry, as we saw in the US before the last US election (and currently see with the USAID driven protests in LA and other US cities) or they are too lazy to do in-depth research into what he has achieved and how it was done, so just parrot speak and repeat what the former are telling them.

That is what winds me up more than anything - the laziness of debate. No proof, no facts, just regurgitated left-wing garbage (as the Americans would say).

You are of course entitled to interpret his career as you see it. I see a man who was given a property company by his Dad, and who went on to have several ventures file for bankruptcy. Not exactly an average Joe made good.
He may not be stellar at selling real estate, but what I can credit him with is an incredible ability to sell himself. And that's what he's done politically. The Americans seem to like big egos in a way Brits just can't get their head around.

I am curious as to how far the cult of Trump can take him. We already know the playbook. Rules are for others. Create chaos and use it to your advantage. Never acknowledge weakness or blame If things go wrong. If he follows through on most of what he's proposing, things could go very wrong economically but it will be someone else's fault. Someone will be called 'horrible' and 'nasty'.

But will the public swallow it? Can he take them with him? Or will they realise his worst nightmare and decide he's the one thing he'd despise most of all. A loser.

[Jampie]

I'm not a Trump supporter, but it seems pretty obvious to me that that was his plan. He got what he wanted through the threat of tariffs. This isn't a novel approach. Leaders use leverage all the time. I agree that it won't work with Xi, who is a much smarter and more wily adversary, but it seems to have worked with Mexico.

What you say about Trump supporters is largely true. But the same goes for those on the other side as well. People on the left will ignore anything positive that comes out of the Trump presidency, or spin stuff to make it look worse. Both sides do this all the time, so let's not pretend otherwise.

Yeah I definitely am not in the camp where I think "the left" are angelic beings who never engage in deception, lies of omission (actually the standard MO for lefty press when the truth is uncomfortable), hypocrisy, ignoring science etc etc. Like I keep saying, this isn't really about left or right for me. Most of the "left vs. right" narrative is manufactured and all too convenient for the people who are actually in power (check who owns the media!). Gets the poors snapping at each other over nothing while everything of value is hoovered up in the background.

However, I just don't believe the ever-shifting narrative (multiple ever-shifting narratives) about Trump having a coherent master plan. If he changes his mind again and slugs Canada and Mexico with tariffs on Monday, his supporters will claim THAT was the master plan. If we never hear about these tariffs again, the master plan will have been the "concessions" given by Mexico and Canada and the narrative that he had an election mandate to impose tariffs will be conveniently forgotten.

Whatever Trump does will be right and good, and whatever anyone does that counters him will be wrong and bad. Like Trudeau was the bad guy for imposing tariffs in response to Trump doing it first, but Trump was fine for doing it first. There is no logic. It's just slavish, mindless worship of someone who is utterly, bafflingly unworthy of it.

In 2016 I tried watching one of his speeches, couldn't sit through it. It was embarrassingly bad. He isn't coherent. He's gotten worse since. I have read a few transcripts though and he demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of a wide range of issues and has trouble holding a train of thought for more than a few seconds. In an interview (back then) he was asked for his opinion on the nuclear triad and his answer made it abundantly clear he had no idea what it was. Now if you or I don't know that, no dramas. But a presidential candidate should be well versed and have a strong view on it.

He also acts like a literal child and uses childish language. I just do not see the master strategist his fanclub insist is in there somewhere. Setting aside his conviction for criminal fraud and mountains of evidence for his other crimes, including actual election interference last time (which he was loudly accusing everyone else of), he is just temperamentally and intellectually not suited to the role of a world leader, let alone of the most powerful nation.

His administration will achieve some good things. They will pale in comparison to the damage he does in the meantime. He's extracted some dubious/questionable concessions from Mexico and Canada, and in the process loudly and publicly destroyed both relationships and wrecked the US's reputation. He will spend the next four years stumbling from one pyrrhic victory to the next while his supporters cheer him on.

It's going to be exceedingly dull. I am ignoring the discussion pretty much everywhere but this board, in fact.

[Lullapie]

You are of course entitled to interpret his career as you see it. I see a man who was given a property company by his Dad, and who went on to have several ventures file for bankruptcy. Not exactly an average Joe made good.
He may not be stellar at selling real estate, but what I can credit him with is an incredible ability to sell himself. And that's what he's done politically. The Americans seem to like big egos in a way Brits just can't get their head around.

I am curious as to how far the cult of Trump can take him. We already know the playbook. Rules are for others. Create chaos and use it to your advantage. Never acknowledge weakness or blame If things go wrong. If he follows through on most of what he's proposing, things could go very wrong economically but it will be someone else's fault. Someone will be called 'horrible' and 'nasty'.

But will the public swallow it? Can he take them with him? Or will they realise his worst nightmare and decide he's the one thing he'd despise most of all. A loser.

Will the public swallow it? That's a shocking statement to make and quite patronising. I think you'll find that over three elections 63 million, 74 million and 77 million respectively voted for him. Are you inferring that many voted for him on a whim or because they weren't intelligent enough to know better?

I think you'll also find that Trump is doing something that the Democrats have never done (and many Republican Presidents haven't done either) since time immemorial and that is do what he said he was going to do.

I believe you'll find that many of the Democratic Party voters and leaders are well below Trump's intellectual level. if you want proof, look how the Democrats are carrying out their National Committee election - a complete mess.

Give the American people a bit more credit. After all, at least they didn't vote in someone like the leader of the UK Labour Party.

[Lullapie]

Last week Trump said that the tariffs on Canada and Mexico start tomorrow. He was asked if there was anything they could do to stop that happening. His answer was an unequivocal, ?No?.

But now he has dropped the tariffs. So yes, he has backed down.

Yes, you keep believing what makes sense in your head.

You obviously can't understand Trump's modus operandi although there is plenty of historical evidence out there to show what it is.

[Lullapie]

My proof is that you said "We've seen the effects of that over the last few years".

Who has been in power for the vast majority of those last few years?

In case you're struggling, the answer begins with T and ends with ories.

Show me your proof where the Tories have changed or destroyed and rewritten history to suit their agenda - that's all I ask. As per usual, you make claims and can't supply one example.