O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[Jampie]

UK's pop growth last year was 455,230, total immigration was 1.2 million. So without huge immigration UK's population would be aging and collapsing at the same time, which I can tell you will result in economic collapse pretty quickly.

Like every single first world nation, the UK depends on immigration to continue to function. Like, at all.

If you aimed for steady population / no growth, you would also collapse because your population would continue to age until the point where you had more retirees than workforce. Fundamentally, the only way to solve this to make more babies, but first world nations have proven completely incapable of addressing this issue for the last several decades.

Hell, we haven't had a sensible discussion about it let alone proposed a solution, let alone implemented one.

Every single article convincing you to be angry about immigration without even bringing up this issue is lying to you. Every article that paints immigration as anything but a bipartisan platform policy is lying to you. There is no major party in any first world nation with an even remotely credible plan to solve this issue. All of them intend to kick the can down the road with huge immigration, indefinitely.

[AltyPie]

UK's pop growth last year was 455,230, total immigration was 1.2 million. So without huge immigration UK's population would be aging and collapsing at the same time, which I can tell you will result in economic collapse pretty quickly.

Like every single first world nation, the UK depends on immigration to continue to function. Like, at all.

If you aimed for steady population / no growth, you would also collapse because your population would continue to age until the point where you had more retirees than workforce. Fundamentally, the only way to solve this to make more babies, but first world nations have proven completely incapable of addressing this issue for the last several decades.

Hell, we haven't had a sensible discussion about it let alone proposed a solution, let alone implemented one.

Every single article convincing you to be angry about immigration without even bringing up this issue is lying to you. Every article that paints immigration as anything but a bipartisan platform policy is lying to you. There is no major party in any first world nation with an even remotely credible plan to solve this issue. All of them intend to kick the can down the road with huge immigration, indefinitely.

A lefty lamenting it has not been possible to have a sensible conversation about immigration is peak irony.

[Jampie]

A lefty lamenting it has not been possible to have a sensible conversation about immigration is peak irony.

What makes me a lefty, in your view?

[AltyPie]

What makes me a lefty, in your view?

Prejudicial, emotionally reasoned, dismissal of a book critical of multiculturalism will do it. Which makes your lamentation of an inability to have a discussion about immigration even peaker ironing.

[Elite_Pie]

What makes me a lefty, in your view?

You should know the rules by now.

If you don't worship Donald Trump, you are a lefty.

[Jampie]

You should know the rules by now.

If you don't worship Donald Trump, you are a lefty.

That's the distinct impression I've got from this clown show lately.

[i961pie]

I don't think immigration is a problem but illegal immigration is. Boatloads of young men coming here with no passports and not knowing where they are from or if they have a criminal past is what scares many people. That's not racism it's a understandable reaction.

[slack_pie]

UK's pop growth last year was 455,230, total immigration was 1.2 million. So without huge immigration UK's population would be aging and collapsing at the same time, which I can tell you will result in economic collapse pretty quickly.

Like every single first world nation, the UK depends on immigration to continue to function. Like, at all.

If you aimed for steady population / no growth, you would also collapse because your population would continue to age until the point where you had more retirees than workforce. Fundamentally, the only way to solve this to make more babies, but first world nations have proven completely incapable of addressing this issue for the last several decades.

Hell, we haven't had a sensible discussion about it let alone proposed a solution, let alone implemented one.

Every single article convincing you to be angry about immigration without even bringing up this issue is lying to you. Every article that paints immigration as anything but a bipartisan platform policy is lying to you. There is no major party in any first world nation with an even remotely credible plan to solve this issue. All of them intend to kick the can down the road with huge immigration, indefinitely.

This is true in the current paradigm, but who knows what the future holds with AI and other emerging technologies completely reshaping our notions of society, economy, work, productivity, purpose, etc.

Re birth rates - it's obviously a complex and multifaceted issue, but I'd imagine the main reasons why people born here are having fewer babies include a sense that our society is in terminal decline, inability for the average couple to own a home, the fixation on careers over family, and the rapid move away from conservative values.

Expanding our population by bringing in millions of foreigners seems a very short-sighted sticking-plaster-type solution to a problem that needs addressing at the root level.

[Jampie]

This is true in the current paradigm, but who knows what the future holds with AI and other emerging technologies completely reshaping our notions of society, economy, work, productivity, purpose, etc.

Re birth rates - it's obviously a complex and multifaceted issue, but I'd imagine the main reasons why people born here are having fewer babies include a sense that our society is in terminal decline, inability for the average couple to own a home, the fixation on careers over family, and the rapid move away from conservative values.

Expanding our population by bringing in millions of foreigners seems a very short-sighted sticking-plaster-type solution to a problem that needs addressing at the root level.

All of this is exactly right IMO.

Not that I think necessarily the solution involves a return to "conservative values". A 1950s marriage was absolutely a raw deal for women.

But to not address the issue at all and just paper over it year after year with huge immigration - probably a huge mistake in the long term. But it's exactly what we're all doing.

Meanwhile, half the population refuses to talk about it because it's "racist" to question if immigration is the answer, and the other half only want to talk about the tiny % who enter illegally because talking about the rest means addressing a huge lie their "side" continually employs. This is not conducive to a solution either.