O/T And we wonder why we trust Starmer

[ragingpup]

All you?ve given me is more propaganda suitable to the west, perhaps no such referendum happened or if it did it was pro Russia?

I've got lots of evidence, from huge variety of sources that the referendum happened. I can post all of this if you wish. What contrary evidence do you have that the referendum didn't happen, or that it was 'pro Russia'?

[ragingpup]

I thought the left were anti war 😂

Very droll, but not sure it's a left position when the likes of Pritti Patel is supporting Starmer's position of keeping ground forces in Ukraine as an option. I think we all share the same ground that we want the war to stop, the fundamental difference seems to be that I (and probably the majority of UK people) don't think it can be achieved whilst Russian forces occupy a part of the Ukraine against the country's democratic wishes. Whereas you seem to share Trump's delusion that you can strike a deal with Russia to stop hostilities without Ukraine's agreement.

(If it turns out that somehow, Trump can strike a deal with Putin that involves the full withdrawal of Russian troops, then I would hugely respect and support Trump for that. This isn't about hating on the man for dogmatic reasons)

[ragingpup]

I gave you a list of things that may have upset Putin.

Who do you think runs the Ukraine now? Has sovereign land been sold off?

Have you got evidence of Ukrainian land being sold off and that anyone other than the elected government running Ukraine? Please share sources on how they are controlling as very interested to see.

And I asked you if France invaded and occupied Kent, would you be willing to give Kent up to them in order for them to stop fighting? Quite a simple question.

[frogmiller]

Very droll, but not sure it's a left position when the likes of Pritti Patel is supporting Starmer's position of keeping ground forces in Ukraine as an option. I think we all share the same ground that we want the war to stop, the fundamental difference seems to be that I (and probably the majority of UK people) don't think it can be achieved whilst Russian forces occupy a part of the Ukraine against the country's democratic wishes. Whereas you seem to share Trump's delusion that you can strike a deal with Russia to stop hostilities without Ukraine's agreement.

(If it turns out that somehow, Trump can strike a deal with Putin that involves the full withdrawal of Russian troops, then I would hugely respect and support Trump for that. This isn't about hating on the man for dogmatic reasons)

Pritti Patel?

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/stoc...an-ukraine-war

[ragingpup]

Pritti Patel?

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/stoc...an-ukraine-war

What of her?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

I've got lots of evidence, from huge variety of sources that the referendum happened. I can post all of this if you wish. What contrary evidence do you have that the referendum didn't happen, or that it was 'pro Russia'?

Reposting made up reports doesn?t verify them it just increases the volume

[Eternal Optimist]

...You brainwashed lot on here...

Priceless.

[Eternal Optimist]

...what do you think is Russia's motive for invading Ukraine? I can't believe that to have such strong opinions that we in the west are all communally and unquestionably following anti-Russian propaganda, but can't have a clear answer and evidence of to explain why Russia are justified in carrying out this invasion?

Other than being surrounded by NATO?

Check out the Minsk Agreement and the way Putin was subsequently shat on.

[ragingpup]

Other than being surrounded by NATO?

Check out the Minsk Agreement and the way Putin was subsequently shat on.

Surrounded by nato? They are pretty much surrounded by their former ussr countries electing to join nato anyway, so if those countries, as independent nations, be allowed to do so, why can't Ukraine be allowed to do so? Since when has any independent nation been prevented from pursuing its own interest simply because its neighbour doesn't like it? No-one has really answered this. You want to have a go?

From my memory, the Minsk agreements were very poor documents that could be read in any way the reader chooses, and indeed it proved to be quite useless in resolving the conflict which incidentally was preceded by Russia's initial invasion in 2014. You want to have a go at telling me why Russia did this, as it came before the Minsk agreements?

[ragingpup]

Reposting made up reports doesn?t verify them it just increases the volume

What evidence do you have that the Ukraine independence referendum didn't happen?