The Bros and an alternative view

[Since71]

The Bros have stabilised the club and built solid foundations both on and off the pitch. As a fan for over 50 years I have feared several times if the club had a future, thankfully due to their diligence those days seem a distant memory.
However, I hope that alongside their analytical approach, they are also learning that supporters need to be entertained and it does take certain characteristics to climb out of this division. Primarily, more physicality than Notts possess currently. Also a more professional (cynical) approach is needed. No teams play by Queensbury rules. We need clear leadership on and off the pitch when games are in.play. I don't see that from Manager or Captain ( though it was with Saunders before he departed) and it can't just be coincidence that home form particularly has been insipid since he was dismissed.
In Bass Bedau and Platt we have a magnificent defensive platform, but outside of that only McGoldrick of our own players matches them for contribution this season.
The rest have flattered to deceive, though I felt Austin prior to his injury had raised his game to L2 level.
And yes I include Jatta who has been truly awful in the last month or so.
I've omitted Abbott as it's his absence next season that is my greatest concern. He has been magnificent. Whilst I'd give Bedau POY, Abbott is a close second IMO
Even fit, Robertson and Edwards come nowhere near to Abbotts speed around the pitch, ability to read and break play up and be able to play a progressive game. That is the recruitment teams biggest conundrum and will have the biggest impact on how we do next season.
Lots of challenges ahead for the Bros to and some questions to be answered.
One being the number of injuries. Another season with anywhere near as many should see them querying the training and fitness team if it's not being looked at already.
I do trust them to get most of it right and have already renewed my season ticket (I will always be a ST holder irrespective) but I'm more interested in being entertained, having a team that play with passion and intensity, that in turn creates a positive atmosphere at ML.
My concern currently is that despite excellent gates, the style of play at home is dull, fans are not being entertained, which most would overlook if the team were winning. But they are not, and less committed fans may choose not to come which would be disappointing given the platform that's been created

[Mud Pie]

The Bros have stabilised the club and built solid foundations both on and off the pitch. As a fan for over 50 years I have feared several times if the club had a future, thankfully due to their diligence those days seem a distant memory.
However, I hope that alongside their analytical approach, they are also learning that supporters need to be entertained and it does take certain characteristics to climb out of this division. Primarily, more physicality than Notts possess currently. Also a more professional (cynical) approach is needed. No teams play by Queensbury rules. We need clear leadership on and off the pitch when games are in.play. I don't see that from Manager or Captain ( though it was with Saunders before he departed) and it can't just be coincidence that home form particularly has been insipid since he was dismissed.
In Bass Bedau and Platt we have a magnificent defensive platform, but outside of that only McGoldrick of our own players matches them for contribution this season.
The rest have flattered to deceive, though I felt Austin prior to his injury had raised his game to L2 level.
And yes I include Jatta who has been truly awful in the last month or so.
I've omitted Abbott as it's his absence next season that is my greatest concern. He has been magnificent. Whilst I'd give Bedau POY, Abbott is a close second IMO
Even fit, Robertson and Edwards come nowhere near to Abbotts speed around the pitch, ability to read and break play up and be able to play a progressive game. That is the recruitment teams biggest conundrum and will have the biggest impact on how we do next season.
Lots of challenges ahead for the Bros to and some questions to be answered.
One being the number of injuries. Another season with anywhere near as many should see them querying the training and fitness team if it's not being looked at already.
I do trust them to get most of it right and have already renewed my season ticket (I will always be a ST holder irrespective) but I'm more interested in being entertained, having a team that play with passion and intensity, that in turn creates a positive atmosphere at ML.
My concern currently is that despite excellent gates, the style of play at home is dull, fans are not being entertained, which most would overlook if the team were winning. But they are not, and less committed fans may choose not to come which would be disappointing given the platform that's been created

lots of really smart points on the OP's whole thread tbh.

New to the league owners, new to pro football coach and assistants, new to the league DOF - there's highly likely going to be steep learning curves in all departments. It shouldn't be surprising if some mistakes have been made. Frustrating, but really inevitable.

I've been on the fence about Maynard, wanting to give him, the system, and the club the benefit of the doubt. I'm pretty sure now though that his rate of growth is slower than the club's potential rate of growth (even if we do get promoted).

From what I've seen of the people pulling the strings at Notts, I'd say there's good reason to be optimistic they'll keep moving us forward. And tbf, there's the nucleus of a really strong squad already in place that will likely grow together if they stay together. Maybe not strong enough to get us up this season, although still possible, but highly likely in the next season or two given our level and performance trends.

How quick our likely rise will be, or should be given our budget (or our entitlement to a "natural level") will depend on lots of things, not least the other clubs. This has been a very unusual season for lots of our peer clubs, not just us.

We are doing most things almost right, I'd say, and progress through the leagues is either by very rich benefactors, or very fine margins. Despite what some fans expect from even smart owners, there's nothing simples about promotion through the leagues.

[Jampie]

Some great posts in this thread.

I think the brothers will be looking at the stats from each game and constantly looking at recent form stats and season-wide. They'll have a graph of performances vs. results, and will be focused on the performances.

Putting my analyst hat on, we're still two wins short of automatic promotion. That's very close to an excellent season, and it will be hard not to see that as 100% validating the strategy in place. This will be especially true if the performance vs. results graph says we've been unlucky by two wins, and especially if the number and severity of injuries we've had has been above average this season and/or disproportionately impacted key players. All of which seems likely to me.

At the same time though, you improve everywhere you can all of the time - they will always have an evolving list of players they're interested in, always be looking at the coaching staff situation, they will always have a list of potential new head coaches (you should be just maintaining that list all the time), and they will be crunching the numbers on whether SM is cutting the mustard or not.

Personally, fan emotions aside, I don't see an issue with him right now. As I say, a few rolls of the dice going our way earlier in the season and we'd be in a promotion spot now. As it stands, we're sitting in a playoff spot and I would never consider removing a head coach while we're in a playoff spot.

I do think he's quiet, and getting him an assistant who is more of a drill-sergeant type could be of great benefit. I hope they're looking into this. I also think if they ever decide to replace him, they won't do it until they have a replacement lined up and ready to go. They just aren't stupid enough to pull the insane move of just sacking the manager without anyone ready to take over.

I do share everyone's frustration with recent results, especially home results though. And I totally get why we've got these emotions. I just don't think acting in response to emotions is ever the answer in business, especially not one like football where emotions are so strong.

What I don't share is any sense of frustration with our progress or perceived lack thereof. We're in our second season in L2 and in a playoff spot. At the start of this season my expectations were that we finish 6th and we're on target. I'm disappointed that we've fallen off from when we looked good for automatic, but I can see several reasons why that's happened that are outside the control of anyone at the club.

As to next season's budget, I suspect after this season they will be willing to spend more than they did this season. It will look like a reasonable investment. But that depends on the players available, and the projected budgets in L1.

[Jampie]

As to the entertainment factor...

Has anyone ever commented on this forum something like "ok so we won that match 3-1 but it was sooooo boring"?

I suspect if we win more matches the "this is boring" narrative will evaporate. Of course I could be wrong but I don't think so.

[the_anticlough]

A big positive for me is that gone are the days I'd rip my hair out due to a manager's defensive approach.

There's nothing worse than watching your team when you know they do not have enough on the pitch to take the game to the opposition (actually doing that is another matter). Like going out for the day in underwear 2 or 3 sizes too small for you. You just can't breathe!

Most owners, DoFs, managers will say they want to see entertaining, attacking football, especially when they just get started.
Under owners like Trew though, over time through slippage, managers like Curle and Derry would con them and the fans by putting out teams that were all about job preservation, 5 or 6 defenders, 3 holding midfielders, unwatchable stuff like that.

The Bros come from a football background though, through the Radar, and employ people that understand what's being put out on the pitch. The last time I saw ultra-negative, job-preserving tendencies was under Ardley and they got shot of him (IB did a fair bit too).

Style of play, schemes of play, players' effectiveness are all different questions and fans will always have their different tastes.
But at least you don't have to watch games where you know you won't be able to do anything apart from scrape a 0-0, 1-1 or if you're very lucky a 1-0. And negative football leads to the opposition getting on top and defeats, but narrow-ish ones, as the coaches know they won't get sacked quickly for those.

Problems under SM are...a slow pace of play, constant team changes so no continuity, low confidence and low-level, poorly-performing players etc. but I'm satisfied they haven't been cheating the paying supporters with a negative approach overall.

[Boomerangpie]

Some great posts, a lot I agree with, on one of my favourite topics.

It would be a cardinal sin if they did but I can’t see the owners taking the fan base for granted. More pertinent the fan base need to remind themselves during the bumps in the road just what the owners have done and not take them for granted.

As mentioned mistakes are always going to be made by any ownership that is why a broader stand back and look approach is needed rather than more immediate emotional reaction a fanbase is accustom to.

The unprecedented and let’s be totally honest unimaginable attendance figures achieved by the club nowadays is predominantly down to the owners. I don’t see that they need advice on that score. It will drop, it should drop at times, but to what level.

Overall the football during their tenure has been as entertaining as I can ever remember, not this season at home, but overall home and away without a doubt. A concern yes but we shouldn’t forget the previous 5 seasons just because this season has been dull …. at home. Football fans will always migrate too and from attending matches based on results and entertainment levels that’s natural the difference is now we have more doing it because we have a far bigger fan base.

I agree being steady and sustainable in League Two is not acceptable for NCFC, it won’t be acceptable for the owners who are pumping in millions of pounds so near fear there for me.

The injury levels are unacceptable and need to be analysed (as much as any Particular player signing) and sorted asap as without doubt that has derailed our promotion ambitions as much as lack of proactive subs or lack of tempo.

The squad is missing some key elements and the recruitment team have , as always, a big important job. I trust them far more than previous models to get it right. They have to sort out our lack of physicality!

I hope the owners release the purse strings a little as when we go up they will have to spend a lot more than at this level to stabilise at League One level that’s for sure. But I ain’t worried about that not only are the Bros doing an undoubted good job and improved the club on lots of fronts they can also surprise as they have done with managerial appointments, player signings and off field investment. All which have been overall impressive.

At the end of the day us impatient fans need to remember it’s only our second season back at this level.


That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Reedtz Bros (aka the best owners we’ve had for an age)

[Woodypie]

I have a hunch that after tomorrow's defeat it will be bye bye Stew and welcome back Luke. Unless Bros are daft.

[magicianpie]

I have a hunch that after tomorrow's defeat it will be bye bye Stew and welcome back Luke. Unless Bros are daft.

I said on another thread. Maybe the telling point/measure of the man is that no one is trying to steal him off us?

[Old_pie]

Some great posts, a lot I agree with, on one of my favourite topics.

It would be a cardinal sin if they did but I can?’t see the owners taking the fan base for granted. More pertinent the fan base need to remind themselves during the bumps in the road just what the owners have done and not take them for granted.

As mentioned mistakes are always going to be made by any ownership that is why a broader stand back and look approach is needed rather than more immediate emotional reaction a fanbase is accustom to.

The unprecedented and let?’s be totally honest unimaginable attendance figures achieved by the club nowadays is predominantly down to the owners. I don?’t see that they need advice on that score. It will drop, it should drop at times, but to what level.

Overall the football during their tenure has been as entertaining as I can ever remember, not this season at home, but overall home and away without a doubt. A concern yes but we shouldn?’t forget the previous 5 seasons just because this season has been dull ?…. at home. Football fans will always migrate too and from attending matches based on results and entertainment levels that?’s natural the difference is now we have more doing it because we have a far bigger fan base.

I agree being steady and sustainable in League Two is not acceptable for NCFC, it won?’t be acceptable for the owners who are pumping in millions of pounds so near fear there for me.

The injury levels are unacceptable and need to be analysed (as much as any Particular player signing) and sorted asap as without doubt that has derailed our promotion ambitions as much as lack of proactive subs or lack of tempo.

The squad is missing some key elements and the recruitment team have , as always, a big important job. I trust them far more than previous models to get it right. They have to sort out our lack of physicality!

I hope the owners release the purse strings a little as when we go up they will have to spend a lot more than at this level to stabilise at League One level that?’s for sure. But I ain?’t worried about that not only are the Bros doing an undoubted good job and improved the club on lots of fronts they can also surprise as they have done with managerial appointments, player signings and off field investment. All which have been overall impressive.

At the end of the day us impatient fans need to remember it?’s only our second season back at this level.


That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Reedtz Bros (aka the best owners we?’ve had for an age)

I agree with much of what you have said and I think the owners realise that this squad has not quite made a level that they would be confident could hold their own in League 1 without significant additional funding and that is why they don't mind another season at this level to avoid massive alterations all in one go.

However as pragmatic and as analytical as they appear to be the whole thing cannot be done on algorithms and statistics alone. Some flair is needed to get the best out of any system otherwise someone could just write a computer program to make decisions based on loads of data. LW had that bit of "X" factor when he was with us. I'm not saying he is now the answer but I will say that SM might meet many statistical metrics but I don't see him rising above them.

[theadissey]

If we look at where we were five years ago and consider the old adage of football club owners ? "where we want to be in five years" ? we are certainly leaps and bounds away from that awful place. We barely had any expertise in the direction of the club under Hardy, and we were littered with nightmarish PR, which inevitably led to us being relegated out of the league.

Players like Milsom, Vaughan and Alessandra were costing us an arm and a leg as they continued their own decline in quality. The egotistical maniac who owned us hardly did anything for the infrastructure of the club, and his legacy of "comms" is ranting on Twitter about signing Messi (something he must have picked up from watching Trew on here).

Now, five years later, the owners don't revel in PR or constant outlandish communications. The infrastructure of the club ? and I mean the whole club, not just the players and the stadium ? is being constantly tweaked and upgraded for the benefit of the fans, the revenue streams, and the players and staff. Recruitment is now done through analytical and character-based research to build sustainably on what we have.

Most importantly for me, we are owned by two Danish brothers who have quietly and meticulously gone about growing and owning the club, without being hedge fund owners, an oil-rich state, or a willy-waving megalomaniac.

Results are often viewed through the lens of recency bias, and I'll admit, it's pretty ****e when turgid, high-possession football sees us lose 1?0 to a counter-attack goal in the 70th minute. But throughout my nearly 30 years as a fan, this is by far the most concise, level-headed and thoroughly thought-through team I've seen ? let alone having the pride to say it's the club I support.