Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

On the need today I thought I heard that the main reason net immigration was down was because far less students are coming to UK (under labour) which I would see as net bad news for university finance if nothing else

[Andy_Faber]

It would appear from reliable fact checking sources, including the BBC, who all confirm that HMG have declined to give their own sub analysis, that HMG have not ?deported? 24,000 souls, the majority having left voluntarily. HMG have returned less than 4% of those arriving by boat in the period in question (just over 1,000 of nearly 24,000)

Claimed by the government, disproved by the fact checkers, disbelieved by the majority, believed by the gullible (see above).

[Trickytreesreds]

It would appear from reliable fact checking sources, including the BBC, who all confirm that HMG have declined to give their own sub analysis, that HMG have not ?deported? 24,000 souls, the majority having left voluntarily. HMG have returned less than 4% of those arriving by boat in the period in question (just over 1,000 of nearly 24,000)

Claimed by the government, disproved by the fact checkers, disbelieved by the majority, believed by the gullible (see above).

Most of those left with a cash incentive, not Labour taking the problem by the nuts.
The Home Office has also posted a video on X, showing people being escorted onto planes by immigration enforcement officials, with the words: "we have removed more than 24,000 people".

But the claim is misleading. The government's latest figures show that only 6,339 of these were "enforced returns". Of those, they were ex cons like Albanians where we can now send them home, or others who had failed their legal blocking attempts. The majority were "voluntary returns" - and a significant number of these happen without the government's direct involvement or even knowledge.

So, in effect, lying through his teeth again.

[swaledale]

It would appear from reliable fact checking sources, including the BBC, who all confirm that HMG have declined to give their own sub analysis, that HMG have not ?deported? 24,000 souls, the majority having left voluntarily. HMG have returned less than 4% of those arriving by boat in the period in question (just over 1,000 of nearly 24,000)

Claimed by the government, disproved by the fact checkers, disbelieved by the majority, believed by the gullible (see above).

I'm not sure your description of GP as gullible is true but no doubt he will forgive you.

Disbelieved by the majority, ah your at it again with that delusion that your views represent the mainstream! If your going to make a statement claiming somebody else's statement is false, then its probably best for your credibility to avoid making a statement that definitely isn't true.

What's true is that 24,000 have returned, some voluntary, some with government assistance and some deported. One can't blame the government for highlighting this fact and claiming responsibility, after all performative politics is what a large proportion of the population seem to want, irrespective of whether anything is actually been achieved.

Meanwhile in other news 3 significant trade deals have been signed off, the one with the EU being the most significant and whilst some fisherman are bleating that they haven't gained anything, its a fact that any deal involves compromises that there are winners and losers and in terms of the benefit for the UK economy and businesses its win. Of course its only a step towards reversing the terrible and economically devastating deal that Johnson negotiated, which has cost the UK so much.

[swaledale]

On the need today I thought I heard that the main reason net immigration was down was because far less students are coming to UK (under labour) which I would see as net bad news for university finance if nothing else

Not sure this analysis supports your view, other than for dependents.

Looking in more detail, non-EU+ immigration has dropped by more than 350,000 since a year earlier. There was a 49% (or 108,000) decrease in immigration for work (main applicants). Meanwhile, the number of work dependants fell by 81,000 (35%). The fall in immigration for study (main applicants) was smaller at 17% for the same period. However, student dependants dropped by 86% from 121,000 to 17,000.

Yes of course a reduction in immigration due to less coming to study is not a positive for university finance, though there might be some positive spin off from Trump's attack on US Universities. However, there were according to sources a growing number of fake schemes whereby student visas were issued for non existent courses. For every action there is a cause and effect.

[Andy_Faber]

Interesting to see on the TV news last night, two of the three people approached in the vox pop stated (I paraphrase) that there are too many immigrants in their area not prepared to contribute to the common good and just looking for what they can take. ?Bloody right wing gammons? goes the cry from some of our little band, but hang on: both were first generation immigrants, a small sample maybe but my guess is they know better than we do

[ramAnag]

Interesting to see on the TV news last night, two of the three people approached in the vox pop stated (I paraphrase) that there are too many immigrants in their area not prepared to contribute to the common good and just looking for what they can take. ?Bloody right wing gammons? goes the cry from some of our little band, but hang on: both were first generation immigrants, a small sample maybe but my guess is they know better than we do

I think what’s more interesting - in the context of this forum and nothing more - is that you choose to veer away completely from Swale’s more ‘heavyweight’ contributions to make a slightly silly attempt to reignite the tedious ‘gammon’ fall out before betraying your true mindset by making a vaguely racist point.

Is anyone likely to be surprised that some ‘immigrants in their area are not prepared to contribute to the common good’?
Isn’t that true of all people in virtually all walks of life?
There are those who get stuck in to help the immediate community and those who don’t. The doers…and the takers.
That, in my experience, is true in all walks of life and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether someone is an immigrant or not.

[Andy_Faber]

I think what’s more interesting - in the context of this forum and nothing more - is that you choose to veer away completely from Swale’s more ‘heavyweight’ contributions to make a slightly silly attempt to reignite the tedious ‘gammon’ fall out before betraying your true mindset by making a vaguely racist point.

Is anyone likely to be surprised that some ‘immigrants in their area are not prepared to contribute to the common good’?
Isn’t that true of all people in virtually all walks of life?
There are those who get stuck in to help the immediate community and those who don’t. The doers…and the takers.
That, in my experience, is true in all walks of life and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether someone is an immigrant or not.

I’m not interested in what Swale has to say in his (dare I say) essays, when it comes to changing hearts and minds quantity isn’t quality, and my point isn’t vaguely racist, it (tries to) make a point about the complexities of the issue, which the mere numbers as quoted by KS yesterday didn’t address in fact IMO sought to hide.

[ramAnag]

I??m not interested in what Swale has to say in his (dare I say) essays, when it comes to changing hearts and minds quantity isn??t quality, and my point isn??t vaguely racist, it (tries to) make a point about the complexities of the issue, which the mere numbers as quoted by KS yesterday didn??t address in fact IMO sought to hide.

You seem to me to be as ‘obsessed’ by Swale as you claim him to be by TTR, but maybe that’s just my interpretation.

Your point is ‘vaguely racist’ imo - possibly subconsciously so - because it takes a general point and directs it solely at immigrants.

We all know that there are doers and takers. Those who allow their dogs to sh*t in the street and those who clean it up, those who worked damned hard to overcome the pandemic and those who simply sought to profit from it, those who riot and those who repair the consequent damage…but that’s just a comment on people in general. Whether or not they are immigrants is irrelevant.
Of course there are immigrants who lack community spirit…but there are plenty of others who do too.

[swaledale]

I?’m not interested in what Swale has to say in his (dare I say) essays, when it comes to changing hearts and minds quantity isn?’t quality, and my point isn?’t vaguely racist, it (tries to) make a point about the complexities of the issue, which the mere numbers as quoted by KS yesterday didn?’t address in fact IMO sought to hide.

You mean, your unable to formulate a reasoned response to the points I raise without resorting to anecdotes, clich?s, subtle racism and a rather ridiculous belief that your views are shared by the majority of people in the UK (whilst being unable to provide any evidence for this claim). I guess that's why you ahve not been able to explain what in your opinion is "good bullying" or why Equality and Diversity is a problem, why its acceptable to scrap government departments in the name of "efficiency" without actually saving costs or considering the impact on people who are vulnerable and less well off, or to deport people without due consideration of the law?