Election Year or Fear!

[MadAmster]

To answer AF's question...

I have nothing against people working hard and making money.

I have nothing against people starting up a business and making a profit. Caveat there is that they pay their staff well and treat them well. Passing some of the profit on to shareholder is not an issue either, provided the staff also benefit from the profits generated by their efforts.

I do have an issue with companies swallowing up ever more other companies simply to improve the lot of the shareholders. Especially when, as has happened in Burton, the major industry, namely brewing and associated trades, gets taken over by a couple of multinationals who then shutdown much of that industry in the chase for ever greater profits and ditto dividends. The upshot of the takeover by Coors and Carlsberg has seen what used to be 10K very well paid jobs in brewing and allied trades being reduced to just over 1K. Those jobs have been replaced by low paid, menial jobs in warehousing etc. A lot of money has been taken out of the town and the shops they now have are mainly of less quality than they were years ago, many are empty and there's poundland type shops, charity shops (even one of those closed recently) and the centre has lost any visual appeal it had. Less pubs, less restaurants too, mainly down to less footfall due to 9K jobs going.

Owners may prosper, I have no issue there. Shareholders too. Problem is there are now too many jobs paying on or just above minimum pay and workers are struggling to make ends meet. I just think that the people whose labour generate the profit should get more than simply a low wage. Good pay and/or a share of the profits. Most shareholders have never put a penny into a company. They have bought their shares on the market off other shareholders and it is the seller who got the money, not the company,

[Andy_Faber]

To answer AF's question...

I have nothing against people working hard and making money.

I have nothing against people starting up a business and making a profit. Caveat there is that they pay their staff well and treat them well. Passing some of the profit on to shareholder is not an issue either, provided the staff also benefit from the profits generated by their efforts.

We've agreed on roughly those words before

But, for those who's naivete/idealism leads them to cry 'limit wealth' or 'tax the rich', ponder on where that would leave you on any given weekend in winter. Not Pride Park that's for sure

[ramAnag]

We've agreed on roughly those words before

But, for those who's naivete/idealism leads them to cry 'limit wealth' or 'tax the rich', ponder on where that would leave you on any given weekend in winter. Not Pride Park that's for sure

Strange response. So you justify the current system of inequality on the basis of one wealthy person saving Derby County.

I can understand that there may be much to admire about Mr. Clowes but, while you are critical of the alleged naivety and idealism of others, what is your answer to the social inequality MA refers to?

[Andy_Faber]

Strange response. So you justify the current system of inequality on the basis of one wealthy person saving Derby County.

I can understand that there may be much to admire about Mr. Clowes but, while you are critical of the alleged naivety and idealism of others, what is your answer to the social inequality MA refers to?

Not justifying anything with that particular comment. Just pointing out a benefit we all share in the hard-earned, legally acquired and properly taxed assets of one of 'the rich'. I didn't see anyone handing in their season ticket to preserve their social ethics when he took over, nor, I guess, will I see it if he sells up to a sovereign wealth fund of a country with a shocking human rights record.

[swaledale]

Not justifying anything with that particular comment. Just pointing out a benefit we all share in the hard-earned, legally acquired and properly taxed assets of one of 'the rich'. I didn't see anyone handing in their season ticket to preserve their social ethics when he took over, nor, I guess, will I see it if he sells up to a sovereign wealth fund of a country with a shocking human rights record.

WTF are you on about? MA RA and myself said quite clearly that the issue isn't people accumulating wealth by legitimate means, paying their taxes and treating their employees fairly, which by all accounts Clowes does. So whats the social ethics that would be preserved?

On the other hand when you have people like Dyson, Ratcliffe and Bamford who are so patriotic, they live abroad and have convoluted arrangements to avoid paying a penny more tax than they have to, that's a different scenario.

I rally can't see Clowes selling up to an ethically dodgy person or organisation to be honest. But certainly my interest in Derby would cease if that did happen. Obviously most fans wouldn't give a stuff, but then obviously there are fans who are racist, bigoted and have right wing tendencies (even though they claim otherwise).

[ramAnag]

Not justifying anything with that particular comment. Just pointing out a benefit we all share in the hard-earned, legally acquired and properly taxed assets of one of 'the rich'. I didn't see anyone handing in their season ticket to preserve their social ethics when he took over, nor, I guess, will I see it if he sells up to a sovereign wealth fund of a country with a shocking human rights record.

Strange, curious and certainly evasive. You introduced David Clowes and football club ownership into the argument but the question was, what would you do about the issues MA raised i.e. the rapidly widening gap between rich and poor and, I imagine, the fact that we are now in a situation where approaching half of the worlds wealth is owned by the richest 1% of people?
Maybe that is all fine by you. If it is, say so, because talking about legally acquired properly taxed assets and preserving social ethics is a GP sized red herring.

[swaledale]

Strange response. So you justify the current system of inequality on the basis of one wealthy person saving Derby County.

I can understand that there may be much to admire about Mr. Clowes but, while you are critical of the alleged naivety and idealism of others, what is your answer to the social inequality MA refers to?

Careful RA, you will blow his mind trying to answer that one!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Or indeed where these new investors many hanker for getting there wealth from. It ain't by getting promoted to head teacher.

[ramAnag]

Or indeed where these new investors many hanker for getting there wealth from. It ain't by getting promoted to head teacher.

What does that even mean?