OT Border Control State of Emergency

[ragingpup]

Raging , the next election will be fought on one single ticket in my opinion and it's the one Reform are busy keeping topical about almost every single day .

As things stand right now Reform will win .

The electorate have been promised a reduction in immigration for almost 20 years and the two major party's have broken their promises constantly , the Tories the worst culprits .

The country will elect Farage unless the next four years see Labour massively on top of it .

Last year I thought Farage had very little chance even with a very average Labour term in government , now I think it's almost inevitable .

If enough of the electorate have had enough of mass immigration and boat crossings and they elect Farage then that in itself makes it a credible enough issue , that's democracy .

The average Guardian reader so to speak is going to have to accept political reality .

Either Labour gets massively on top of immigration and boat crossings or it's Farage in number 10 .

The days of the continuation of suppressing a very large number of the electorate are almost over with immigration and boat crossings .

Good post, fair, calm points animal. I guess where we differ is the importance of mass immigration to the majority of voters.

1. If you are going to argue for a net zero % immigration, as I think Farage has to provide us with a credible plan for how we are going to fill the continuing vacancies in both skilled and unskilled work - I work with many immigrant technical teachers, but also skilled craftsmen, construction, NHS, social care, hospitality. What is the plan for that at the moment? I've not heard Farage come out with one and despite repeatedly asking this question on here, I've heard no credible plan. If we're going to train our own, as I would like to see, who is going to pay the enormous bill for that and how are you going to get that past the electorate as I'm sure we will all have to pay for it.

2. Regarding illegal immigration, what is Farage going to actually do that will succeed where others have failed in both stopping the boats whilst maintaining working relationships with France and other countries that take in more illegal immigrants than we do? If we say we will send them back, what is the plan when France invoke international law (as is their right) to refuse their reentry backed by their EU partners? Again, what are you and Farage propsing here in detail?

So when you say Labour have to massively 'get on top of immigration', what are the tangible things that you would like them to do that will address the above questions?

I do actually completely agree with you that even without being able to offer credible plans to the above scenarios we face, there is a genuine threat of a Farage government but I think that he/they will face a huge opposition from what I think are the majority of people who coalesced to hold their noses and put a poor Labour government in last time. I personally think you over estimate the numbers of people who put immigration as the main issue - I think that most people: the lib dems, greens, centrist tories, centrist labour and of course tthe new party on the left with a huge 700k subscribers dwarfing Reform. When faced with a party touting zero immigration, most of these more moderate, centrist people (prob not the new left wing party!) will definitely want the above 2 questions answering with credibility. As far as I can see, these people are more focused with the economy, health and public services, the actual world we see around us as opposed to online, and feel in our pay packets and ability to pay the bills that Labour will be rightly judged on. And at the moment, they've put themselves in an electoral straight jacket - promising many things without asking anyone to pay for them. All the parties are doing it. We make them do it. At the moment, we have the politicians we deserve, and it's not good.

So I guess we'll have to see. As someone who lives and works in central London, where Reformists seem to think is a a crime ridden wateland with warring minority groups, I travel to work in a morning and just see people going about their business in the same way as everyone else. It sounds to be like hyperbolic, alarmist and extremely distorted version of reality that I can't recognise around me but it isn't about me, it's about the whole voting poulation. Farage has cut through a great deal with a substantial and very focused, but very single issued group of voters who will challenge for sure, but I would hope that the voting public overall can recognise that the answers suggested by Reform don't solve the bigger issues facing us.

[Shark27]

Good post, fair, calm points animal. I guess where we differ is the importance of mass immigration to the majority of voters.

1. If you are going to argue for a net zero % immigration, as I think Farage has to provide us with a credible plan for how we are going to fill the continuing vacancies in both skilled and unskilled work - I work with many immigrant technical teachers, but also skilled craftsmen, construction, NHS, social care, hospitality. What is the plan for that at the moment? I've not heard Farage come out with one and despite repeatedly asking this question on here, I've heard no credible plan. If we're going to train our own, as I would like to see, who is going to pay the enormous bill for that and how are you going to get that past the electorate as I'm sure we will all have to pay for it.

2. Regarding illegal immigration, what is Farage going to actually do that will succeed where others have failed in both stopping the boats whilst maintaining working relationships with France and other countries that take in more illegal immigrants than we do? If we say we will send them back, what is the plan when France invoke international law (as is their right) to refuse their reentry backed by their EU partners? Again, what are you and Farage propsing here in detail?

So when you say Labour have to massively 'get on top of immigration', what are the tangible things that you would like them to do that will address the above questions?

I do actually completely agree with you that even without being able to offer credible plans to the above scenarios we face, there is a genuine threat of a Farage government but I think that he/they will face a huge opposition from what I think are the majority of people who coalesced to hold their noses and put a poor Labour government in last time. I personally think you over estimate the numbers of people who put immigration as the main issue - I think that most people: the lib dems, greens, centrist tories, centrist labour and of course tthe new party on the left with a huge 700k subscribers dwarfing Reform. When faced with a party touting zero immigration, most of these more moderate, centrist people (prob not the new left wing party!) will definitely want the above 2 questions answering with credibility. As far as I can see, these people are more focused with the economy, health and public services, the actual world we see around us as opposed to online, and feel in our pay packets and ability to pay the bills that Labour will be rightly judged on. And at the moment, they've put themselves in an electoral straight jacket - promising many things without asking anyone to pay for them. All the parties are doing it. We make them do it. At the moment, we have the politicians we deserve, and it's not good.

So I guess we'll have to see. As someone who lives and works in central London, where Reformists seem to think is a a crime ridden wateland with warring minority groups, I travel to work in a morning and just see people going about their business in the same way as everyone else. It sounds to be like hyperbolic, alarmist and extremely distorted version of reality that I can't recognise around me but it isn't about me, it's about the whole voting poulation. Farage has cut through a great deal with a substantial and very focused, but very single issued group of voters who will challenge for sure, but I would hope that the voting public overall can recognise that the answers suggested by Reform don't solve the bigger issues facing us.

Farage isn?t touting zero immigration.

[howdydoo]

Farage isn?t touting zero immigration.

The new party on the left have had 700k sign ups to a 'newsletter' though 😂. That bit's true.

[MillerBill]

Freebie sign ups but it gets publicity from certain quarters.

[ragingpup]

Farage isn?t touting zero immigration.

No?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigel-fara...112003970.html

[ragingpup]

The new party on the left have had 700k sign ups to a 'newsletter' though 😂. That bit's true.

Fair enough. And the lib dems? Centrists on labour and tories? Greens? Independents? And then the freaky 700k who have expressed interest in a far left party as batty as your beloved reforms. That's a lot of people who i think will be completely opposed to Reform. No?

[MillerBill]

Fair enough. And the lib dems? Centrists on labour and tories? Greens? Independents? And then the freaky 700k who have expressed interest in a far left party as batty as your beloved reforms. That's a lot of people who i think will be completely opposed to Reform. No?

Keep dreaming pup.

[Shark27]

No?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigel-fara...112003970.html

Your point being?

[ragingpup]

Your point being?

Hmm...

[Shark27]

Hmm...

Hmm what?

Your clip doesn?t show that he?s touting zero immigration. Surely you know this?