Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

he has…somehow captured the imagination of about a quarter of the electorate.

Sorry to butt in on the echo chamber I think you four remainers find yourselves in, but rAs words sum up the conundrum, and I’ll add purely by way of anecdote that a) whilst the movement in that direction isnt a tsunami, its certainly getting close to a flood, and b) those moving are no longer merely the oft-referred to (here anyway) thick, but a much wider demographic.

[ramAnag]

Sorry to butt in on the echo chamber I think you four remainers find yourselves in, but rAs words sum up the conundrum, and I?’ll add purely by way of anecdote that a) whilst the movement in that direction isnt a tsunami, its certainly getting close to a flood, and b) those moving are no longer merely the oft-referred to (here anyway) thick, but a much wider demographic.

I don’t think I’ve ever referred to them as ‘thick’, AF. Gullible and selfish maybe and there’s no ‘echo chamber’, just three or four voices individually speaking out against Farage’s populism.

The point I think is that I always thought that Swale rather ‘over egged’ the comparison with Germany in the thirties scenario.

I’ve changed my mind. I think he’s increasingly right and the recent large scale ‘stealing’ of the flag, in the same way as the Nazi’s stole the colours of the German Empire, seems to emphasise this. I was speaking to someone at the weekend who lives in a Derby suburb in a ‘mixed race’ marriage who was telling me how intimidated she felt in the current climate. For Jews read Muslims and assorted ‘dusky foreigners’ and take care who you align yourself with.

[swaledale]

Sorry to butt in on the echo chamber I think you four remainers find yourselves in, but rAs words sum up the conundrum, and I’ll add purely by way of anecdote that a) whilst the movement in that direction isnt a tsunami, its certainly getting close to a flood, and b) those moving are no longer merely the oft-referred to (here anyway) thick, but a much wider demographic.

Thats possibly your view because of your own echo chamber? Also of course those who think Reform is the answer are expressing that view (egged on by the media amplifying it), rather than a ture reflection of the majority of the voting population.

The real danger IMO, stems from those disgruntled with Labours move to the right, which will see their vote decline.

It might be a wider demographic, but if any are actually thinking Farage and Reform are the answer, then they are either thick or at least incapable or unwilling to understand the issues and an inability to recognise when they are being conned by a rich grifter, backed by billionaires whose agenda is very much not supporting the so called average person and definitely not the "working class".

[MadAmster]

Farage models himself somewhat on the Fanta flavoured F*ckwit. He's about as much for the benefit of the worst off 75% of the populace in the UK as the FFF is in the USA.

The people now turning to Farage can't have read or heard the majority of his proposals. Private insurance based health service. Look at his Tax reforms. They'll cost billions. He was challenged in an interview how he'd pay for the 141 Billion GBP he'd be stripping the Treasury of. He didn't question the 141Bn figure but waffled that everything would be fine and dandy. If he means upping the national be debt by FFF like proportions is fine and dandy, then he's right.

He'll be like Wilders. Extreme when it comes to immigration but end up getting nowt done, have a manifesto full of leftist socio economic proposals and, once in the position of being the largest party in the coalition, fails to give the "plebs" what he promised them in the manifesto but did manage to give tax breaks to multinationals, large companies and the rich. He's also a fan of FFF and Putin.

We have new elections on October 29th. I really hope folk get wise to Wilders and don't vote for him and his party (it really is HIS party as their rules only allow one member and that's him) as you won't get what he's told you you'll get. 10 years ago his party backed the then minority coalition without being formally part of of it. When things got too hot under his feet, he stopped his backing for the coalition. This time round, as the largest party in the coalition, he wanted the toughest immigration Laws we've ever had. Part of the coalition agreement was that everything had to be legal, affordable and possible (the various departments could actually do it). Once he saw that Dutch and International Law prevented some of his more extravagant wishes on immigration, he doubled down with 10 more demands, all of which failed at least one of the legal etc tests. he left the coalition to force an election in the hope he can get sole power. He won't as it's never going to happen that he gets a 50 percent plus 1 majority. No other half serious party will join him in a coalition as he's run away twice now. The latest polls also no longer have him as the largest party. He's hoping fear and rhetoric win the day. It won't.

It will be a sad day if no marks like Farage and Wilders get to run their countries. IMO.

[swaledale]

Farage models himself somewhat on the Fanta flavoured F*ckwit. He's about as much for the benefit of the worst off 75% of the populace in the UK as the FFF is in the USA.

The people now turning to Farage can't have read or heard the majority of his proposals. Private insurance based health service. Look at his Tax reforms. They'll cost billions. He was challenged in an interview how he'd pay for the 141 Billion GBP he'd be stripping the Treasury of. He didn't question the 141Bn figure but waffled that everything would be fine and dandy. If he means upping the national be debt by FFF like proportions is fine and dandy, then he's right.

He'll be like Wilders. Extreme when it comes to immigration but end up getting nowt done, have a manifesto full of leftist socio economic proposals and, once in the position of being the largest party in the coalition, fails to give the "plebs" what he promised them in the manifesto but did manage to give tax breaks to multinationals, large companies and the rich. He's also a fan of FFF and Putin.

We have new elections on October 29th. I really hope folk get wise to Wilders and don't vote for him and his party (it really is HIS party as their rules only allow one member and that's him) as you won't get what he's told you you'll get. 10 years ago his party backed the then minority coalition without being formally part of of it. When things got too hot under his feet, he stopped his backing for the coalition. This time round, as the largest party in the coalition, he wanted the toughest immigration Laws we've ever had. Part of the coalition agreement was that everything had to be legal, affordable and possible (the various departments could actually do it). Once he saw that Dutch and International Law prevented some of his more extravagant wishes on immigration, he doubled down with 10 more demands, all of which failed at least one of the legal etc tests. he left the coalition to force an election in the hope he can get sole power. He won't as it's never going to happen that he gets a 50 percent plus 1 majority. No other half serious party will join him in a coalition as he's run away twice now. The latest polls also no longer have him as the largest party. He's hoping fear and rhetoric win the day. It won't.

It will be a sad day if no marks like Farage and Wilders get to run their countries. IMO.

Its almost as if these types do it purely for their own self interest, the attention they get and the money they accrue, whilst distracting the masses by ranting on about immigration, from the fact that the richest 1% are getting richer at the rest of the populations expense!!

[MadAmster]

Its almost as if these types do it purely for their own self interest, the attention they get and the money they accrue, whilst distracting the masses by ranting on about immigration, from the fact that the richest 1% are getting richer at the rest of the populations expense!!

Exactly.

[MadAmster]

Charlie Kirk, shot and killed for his beliefs. Shouldn't happen, however much you might disagree with him. His thoughts on empathy were interesting and I wonder what he'd make of someone disagreeing with those thoughts feeling empathy towards his friends and family following his death. "Social media" is full of those screaming "it's the way of the left". Rewind to June of this year. Democrat Melissa Hartman and her husband shot and killed for their views. Same month, Democrat John Hoffman shot 9 times and his wife 8 times. Somehow they both survived. Same crap, I disagree with you so you must die. That is so damned wrong.

Not yet seen/heard any conspeorists saying false flag....

[Andy_Faber]

Charlie Kirk, shot and killed for his beliefs. Shouldn't happen, however much you might disagree with him. His thoughts on empathy were interesting and I wonder what he'd make of someone disagreeing with those thoughts feeling empathy towards his friends and family following his death. "Social media" is full of those screaming "it's the way of the left". Rewind to June of this year. Democrat Melissa Hartman and her husband shot and killed for their views. Same month, Democrat John Hoffman shot 9 times and his wife 8 times. Somehow they both survived. Same crap, I disagree with you so you must die. That is so damned wrong.

Not yet seen/heard any conspeorists saying false flag....

I saw this 'as live' ie before it hit any mainstream newswires last eve, by total coincidence. Gruesome, don't search it out.

Sad, tragic, he had a way of connecting with young adults and of calling out some of the more bonkers (mainly leftist, sorry fellahs) views. I didn't agree with everything he said (esp his black/white views on abortion) but for the most part his opinions were well put over and evidence-backed. Shame someone decided that 'cancel culture' needed to go this far.

A false flag of sorts happened almost as soon as mainstream media got hold of this, a spokesman on MSNBC suggested it was a stray 'celebration shot' from a supporter. I understand that spokesman has since been dismissed, possibly as much as anything to protect MSNBC's lefty credentials. The rumour online is that the commentator also said 'he deserved it' but I've seen no evidence of that

Old-school 'mainstream media only' forum members may need to do some catching up here as Charlie was effectively 'cancelled' from it, although massive elsewhere

[MadAmster]

I saw this 'as live' ie before it hit any mainstream newswires last eve, by total coincidence. Gruesome, don't search it out.

Sad, tragic, he had a way of connecting with young adults and of calling out some of the more bonkers (mainly leftist, sorry fellahs) views. I didn't agree with everything he said (esp his black/white views on abortion) but for the most part his opinions were well put over and evidence-backed. Shame someone decided that 'cancel culture' needed to go this far.

A false flag of sorts happened almost as soon as mainstream media got hold of this, a spokesman on MSNBC suggested it was a stray 'celebration shot' from a supporter. I understand that spokesman has since been dismissed, possibly as much as anything to protect MSNBC's lefty credentials. The rumour online is that the commentator also said 'he deserved it' but I've seen no evidence of that

Old-school 'mainstream media only' forum members may need to do some catching up here as Charlie was effectively 'cancelled' from it, although massive elsewhere

I was aware of him and disagreed with many of his outpourings.

[swaledale]

I saw this 'as live' ie before it hit any mainstream newswires last eve, by total coincidence. Gruesome, don't search it out.

Sad, tragic, he had a way of connecting with young adults and of calling out some of the more bonkers (mainly leftist, sorry fellahs) views. I didn't agree with everything he said (esp his black/white views on abortion) but for the most part his opinions were well put over and evidence-backed. Shame someone decided that 'cancel culture' needed to go this far.

A false flag of sorts happened almost as soon as mainstream media got hold of this, a spokesman on MSNBC suggested it was a stray 'celebration shot' from a supporter. I understand that spokesman has since been dismissed, possibly as much as anything to protect MSNBC's lefty credentials. The rumour online is that the commentator also said 'he deserved it' but I've seen no evidence of that

Old-school 'mainstream media only' forum members may need to do some catching up here as Charlie was effectively 'cancelled' from it, although massive elsewhere

I would be genuinely interested as to which of his opinions you feel were evidence backed?