Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

I know you’ll think I’m defending Swale (he doesn’t need it) and extending my love affair with him (too ridiculous for words), but you question that it was a ‘far right demo’.
I’d suggest you look at the principle organisers before reaching a conclusion. If you can’t find them I’ll list them. They are all of a far right persuasion and in that respect it was, unquestionably, a ‘far right demo’.
Tbh I’m quite surprised there were as few as there were there. From the little I’ve read the absolute maximum number of participants was between 100,000 and 150,000 and I’m sure I, possibly you too, were on bigger student demos in London in the 1970’s
It really isn’t that big a number, especially in these troubled times, but it was, without a shadow of doubt, organised by those on the far Right.

I think there is a big difference between "who organises" and "who goes" in outlook. For sure the front men were of the extreme right persuasion but those who went were unquestionably more of a mixed (dare I say balanced) bag. As I said before, I was talking to two guys who went, neither are extreme and both voted labour at last election but are sick of what labour has done. I think they voted labour as a protest versus the mess the Tories created, but very much not extremists - just frustrted individuals.

My memories of student marches of youth are way smaller than that. But i was in Birmingham and twenty minutes in we mostly descended on a local pub to ease the tired legs!! I recall a "Workers, students, unite.Smash the social contrick" protest one Saturday but most people headed off to Villa Park in short order....

[SithHappens]

I understand that those involved don't want to be labeled as far right thugs just because a minority are, but then it's only right immigrants aren't all labeled as criminals and rapists.

Anyway...On the subject of far right thugs and criminals and rapists from abroad, I wonder how things are going at Windsor today.

[ramAnag]

I think there is a big difference between "who organises" and "who goes" in outlook. For sure the front men were of the extreme right persuasion but those who went were unquestionably more of a mixed (dare I say balanced) bag. As I said before, I was talking to two guys who went, neither are extreme and both voted labour at last election but are sick of what labour has done. I think they voted labour as a protest versus the mess the Tories created, but very much not extremists - just frustrted individuals.

Just out of (genuine) interest. What is it they say that Labour have done that turns them towards supporting a convicted criminal loudmouth.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just out of (genuine) interest. What is it they say that Labour have done that turns them towards supporting a convicted criminal loudmouth.

Essentially viewd as having achieved nothing. Not addressed any of the election promises, u turns on own policies - particularly benefits clampdowns, in effect taxing the working man through taxing employers, done nothing to control illegal immigration, kow towing to minorities, sleaze and back handers - no different from Tories

[Geoff Parkstone]

I understand that those involved don't want to be labeled as far right thugs just because a minority are, but then it's only right immigrants aren't all labeled as criminals and rapists.

Anyway...On the subject of far right thugs and criminals and rapists from abroad, I wonder how things are going at Windsor today.

"I understand that those involved don't want to be labeled as far right thugs just because a minority are, but then it's only right immigrants aren't all labeled as criminals and rapists."

Quite right Sith - but then all illegal immigants are by definition criminals as they break the law by simply arriving here

[ramAnag]

Essentially viewd as having achieved nothing. Not addressed any of the election promises, u turns on own policies - particularly benefits clampdowns, in effect taxing the working man through taxing employers, done nothing to control illegal immigration, kow towing to minorities, sleaze and back handers - no different from Tories

So would they - and you - have entirely disagreed with Swale’s post (4176) yesterday, my approval of which seemed to infuriate you? Wouldn't you/they accept it takes time to turn around 14 years of ineptitude?
Do they really think Robinson has any answers? The man’s proven to be a violent crook, drug pusher, and fraudster…and not a very capable one at that!

[Geoff Parkstone]

I will have to ask them!

It takes time to address the problems, but I dont agree with Swales list of achievements, no. They arent facts. There are a few easy early hits - eg settled train drivers dispute by capitulating to the wage demands. but renatioanlising the railways !! We couldnt afford to buy back Thomas' little corporation on Sodor, and likely couldnt run it anyway given past BR performance. That really is rhetoric and feasibilitystudies. Besides which water is the bigger issue - but again a bit difficult as would need about a 75% average tax rate to fix that one..

I dont think many of the things he has listed have been affectively even started on let alonecclose to approaching completion. Just his particular rose tint of spectacles. And certinly Ive not seen any serious costed plans for dealing with anything. Just a bit of hot air. Anything vaguely controversial has been U turned on or watered down if it impacts likely labour voters. But the grannies, the farmers, the soon to be pensioners who he likely sees as not voting his way all seem to be fair game whilst eg the long needed benefits regime reform seems to have disappeared from the radar because his voters dont like to sacrafice anything to the common good.

And "making asylum easier" which I think was one of the alleged achievements isnt likely to appeal to them, or IMHO anyone!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

"Do they really think Robinson has any answers? The man’s proven to be a violent crook, drug pusher, and fraudster…and not a very capable one at that!"

Personally no he wont, Farage wont. But the march provided a forum for people to express dissatisfaction with the first 14 months of not living up to election promises. Smash the gangs - yes thats worked well - especially returning their abandoned rubber dinghies to them to reuse (probably an urban myth to be fair)

Same as noone believe that the leadership of pro Palestine marches wont remedy the problem their but its a forum to make yourself heard. Same with your experience at Red Lion Square - did you really think the leadership of Liberation, the Movement for Colonial Freedom would change anything. Im sure not but it was a platform for the voice to be heard

[SithHappens]

No doubt that Labour haven't delivered all promised. But they are still only a year into their tenure.

I'm not sure i can ever recall a new government being held to account so quickly.

Still think they need time. And I will repeat that I am not a Starmer fan and did not vote Labour. What I do recognise that constant change (see tories in their last government, see leicester, see derby under morris) does nothing to help.

I still don't believe Farage will be leader if Reform come the next Election polls continue to suggest they will win. It's looking more and more like Johnson despite Farage saying not.

[ramAnag]

"Do they really think Robinson has any answers? The man?s proven to be a violent crook, drug pusher, and fraudster?and not a very capable one at that!"

Personally no he wont, Farage wont. But the march provided a forum for people to express dissatisfaction with the first 14 months of not living up to election promises. Smash the gangs - yes thats worked well - especially returning their abandoned rubber dinghies to them to reuse (probably an urban myth to be fair)

Same as noone believe that the leadership of pro Palestine marches wont remedy the problem their but its a forum to make yourself heard. Same with your experience at Red Lion Square - did you really think the leadership of Liberation, the Movement for Colonial Freedom would change anything. Im sure not but it was a platform for the voice to be heard

I’ve been on a number of demonstrations in the dim and distant. Some were about student grants, which generally achieved little tbh, other than a cheap day out in London, some were opposing racism, which were the only ones that turned violent when the NF got involved and some were in support of anti apartheid and freeing Nelson Mandela, which I guess were spectacularly successful seeing as he went from political prisoner to President in a relatively short space of time.

I can understand people protesting about the treatment of Palestinians nowadays although it appears to achieve little. I can also understand certain frustrations that people have these days. What I will never be able to understand is people flocking behind the likes of Robinson and Farage thinking that they and their flag hijacking - which yes I do greatly resent - offer any sort of solution.