OT - Manchester again.

[swaledale]

Good. Once a c*** always a c""' regardless of age or profession. They support an organisation whose stated aims include breaking the law and criminal damage and has been rightly proscribes, as should any organisation condoning law breaking. Therefore they are beneath contempt.

Hang on a minute, proscribing an organisation is about terrorist organisations, not those whose activities might on occasion involve breaking the law. There are existing laws which are more than enough to deal with people who cause criminal damage.

I've not seen any evidence that the stated aims of PA are breaking the law and criminal damage, but in the history of protest, there has always been (often for justified reasons) protest groups that have engaged in law breaking.

Lets face it governments often ignore or side line protests, or society is such that it takes something dramatic to actually change views and bring about change. Personally I admire people who are prepared to risk their freedom for a just cause.

But I guess in the Suffragettes time you'd have been happy to see them proscribed and described them as ****s?

Or maybe the Kinder trespassers should have been proscribed?

I guess The Levellers, those at the Peterloo Massacre and Anti Apartheid protests, are also according to your way of thinking?

Remarkably short sighted and bizarre thinking on your part.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hang on a minute, proscribing an organisation is about terrorist organisations, not those whose activities might on occasion involve breaking the law. There are existing laws which are more than enough to deal with people who cause criminal damage.

I've not seen any evidence that the stated aims of PA are breaking the law and criminal damage, but in the history of protest, there has always been (often for justified reasons) protest groups that have engaged in law breaking.

Lets face it governments often ignore or side line protests, or society is such that it takes something dramatic to actually change views and bring about change. Personally I admire people who are prepared to risk their freedom for a just cause.

But I guess in the Suffragettes time you'd have been happy to see them proscribed and described them as ****s?

Or maybe the Kinder trespassers should have been proscribed?

I guess The Levellers, those at the Peterloo Massacre and Anti Apartheid protests, are also according to your way of thinking?

Remarkably short sighted and bizarre thinking on your part.

It wasnt me who proscribed it - it was your mate two tier, the tool makers son. On 5 July 2025, following the security breach at RAF Brize Norton and vandalism of a plane.

The following quotes from the proscribing order approved by 2TS:

"Palestine Action is a pro-Palestinian group with the stated aim to support Palestinian
sovereignty by using direct criminal action tactics to halt the sale and export of
military equipment to Israel. Since its inception in 2020, Palestine Action has
orchestrated a nationwide campaign of direct criminal action against businesses and
institutions, including key national infrastructure and defence firms that provide
services and supplies to support Ukraine, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation
(NATO), “Five Eyes” allies and the UK defence enterprise. Palestine Action has also
broadened its targets from the defence industry to include financial firms, charities,
universities and government buildings. Its activity has increased in frequency and
severity since the start of 2024 and its methods have become more aggressive, with its
members demonstrating a willingness to use violence. Its activities meet the threshold
of being concerned in terrorism as set out in the Terrorism Act 2000."

Im not sure how more clear you want it expressed - unless of course its the far right wing media that 2TS is now under the influence of?

Remarkably short sighted and bizarre lack of knowledge on your part.

[swaledale]

It wasnt me who proscribed it - it was your mate two tier, the tool makers son. On 5 July 2025, following the security breach at RAF Brize Norton and vandalism of a plane.

The following quotes from the proscribing order approved by 2TS:

"Palestine Action is a pro-Palestinian group with the stated aim to support Palestinian
sovereignty by using direct criminal action tactics to halt the sale and export of
military equipment to Israel. Since its inception in 2020, Palestine Action has
orchestrated a nationwide campaign of direct criminal action against businesses and
institutions, including key national infrastructure and defence firms that provide
services and supplies to support Ukraine, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation
(NATO), “Five Eyes” allies and the UK defence enterprise. Palestine Action has also
broadened its targets from the defence industry to include financial firms, charities,
universities and government buildings. Its activity has increased in frequency and
severity since the start of 2024 and its methods have become more aggressive, with its
members demonstrating a willingness to use violence. Its activities meet the threshold
of being concerned in terrorism as set out in the Terrorism Act 2000."

I'm not sure how more clear you want it expressed - unless of course its the far right wing media that 2TS is now under the influence of?

Remarkably short sighted and bizarre lack of knowledge on your part.

What's actually bizarre, is that you have completely failed to understand that I was referring to your comment that all such organisations should be proscribed and your whole hearted agreement to it. I at no time suggested you were responsible, just questioned why you thought it was a good thing.

Rather akin to your bizarre comment about Floyd regarding respecting the dead, which was irrelevant, given I'd been arguing that not all those that die necessarily attract respect and hadn't mentioned Floyd or expressly supported him.

So you have resorted to repeating inaccurate slogans pushed by right wing commentators and the media? I thought you had more intellectual capacity than to repeat such crap, but obviously not. The 2 tier slogan is a lie and can easily be proven to be so, by those with the ability to actually understand the justice system.

Kier is not "my mate" what a childish comment, I happen to think he is better than what else is on offer, but as I have posted before, there is much that him and his government can be criticised for, including the proscribing of PA.

For somebody who frequently claims that governments and others put out falsehoods, to quote their "reasons" for proscribing that organisation as if they represented the unvarnished truth is surprising. After all I do remember, as I'm sure you do, another Labour PM presenting a very detailed dossier on why there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and justifying going to war on that basis.

As one who is clearly rather more cynical and less willing to accept what governments say than you appear to be (unless of course it accords with your own prejudices) my view and indeed that of many other people who are more connected to what's going on than me, it that it was a knee jerk reaction, politically motivated after being embarrassed that security at a military base was so poor, a group of amateur activists managed gain access and spray paint on some aircraft. Thank **** it wasn't some foreign power looking to attack UK military assets!!

In respect of PA, the actions that have been taken by that group, and again I do not approve of this, were limited to criminal damage, there have been no actual action taken against member's for violence and indeed of the information that is available, the vast majority of their activities have been very similar to that taken against businesses who were involved in supporting the anti apartheid regime in South Africa, albeit they have also engaged in criminal damage and there are adequate laws to deal with such activities the action to proscribe them is in mine and many other people's opinion an over reaction by the government, due to pressure from Israeli defence firm's and Israel
itself.

Its rather naïve of you to trot out what this government has put out to justify their action as "proof" of why they should have been proscribed, and rather amusing that having done so you accuse me of short sightedness and lack of knowledge!!